பிற லோகங்களில் வாழ்பவர்கள்

Updated on November 1, 2020 in General

நாம் சுவர்கலோகத்தில் தேவர்களும், ஸத்ய லோகத்தில் பிரம்மனும் வாழ்வதாக அறிந்திருக்கிறோம். ம‌ற்ற நான்கு லோகத்தில் வாழ்பவர்கள் யார்? இதே போல் பூலோகத்தில் உள்ள மற்ற தவீபங்களில் யார் வாழ்கிறார்கள்? இதை ப‌ற்‌றி விரிவாக உறைக்கவும்.

– அடியேன்

 
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3 on October 22, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,

Swamy, a related audio is audio 594 https://www.kinchit.org/kinchit-en-pani/551-600/

Geography of 14 lokas and bhuloka is explained by swamy. In the end swamy explains that description of inhabitants of these lokas are given in Scriptures like Bhagawatham and everybody should read.

In there are other audios, others may refer here.

Adiyen

 

நன்றி ஸ்வாமி…

– அடியேன்

on October 24, 2020

@enpanifan swamy. I listened to 594 audio but it does not answer this specific question. Our swamy has not explained as to who lives in these lokas.

on October 24, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha

Swamy, That is what i wrote in the above post :)-( may be i was not clear).  It is a related audio for geography, but the details are not explicitly covered in the audio.( Swami says it is described in Bhagawatham). If some body knows please refer the sections here.

Adiyen

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2 on October 29, 2020

ஸ்ரீமதே ராமாநுஜாய நமஹ,

நமஸ்காரம் ஸ்வாமி,

ஆசார்யன் திருவடி பலத்தால் வேளுக்குடி ஸ்வாமிகள் ஆசிர்வாதத்தால் அடியேன் பதிலை பகிர்ந்து கொள்கிறேன்.

ஒரு அண்டகடாகத்தில் பதினான்கு உலகங்கள் உள்ளது. அதில் நடு தட்டில் பூமண்டலம் உள்ளது. அதன் மேல் ஆறு உலகங்கள். அதன் கீழ் ஏழு உலகங்கள். 

1 யோஜனை = 10 மயில்கள்  (10 miles)

‘7) சத்யலோகம் : முழுமுதற்கடவுள் பரமாத்மா விஷ்ணுவுடன் அவர் திவ்ய புத்திரன் ஜீவாத்மா ப்ரஹ்மாவும், அவருடைய புத்திரன் ஜீவாத்மா சிவனும் உள்ள இடமாகும்.  அவர்களை உபாசிப்பவர்கள் சென்றுஅடையும் இடம், 12 கொடி யோஜனை உயர்த்திய உடையதாய் இருக்கின்றது. 

‘6) தபோலோகம் : வைராக்கியம் உடைய ப்ரஜாபதிகள் வாழும் இடம், 8 கொடி யோஜனை உயர்த்திய உடையதாய் இருக்கின்றது.

‘5) ஜனோலோகம் : பிரம்மா புத்திரர்களான சனகாதி பரம யோகிகள் வாழும் இடம், 2 கொடி யோஜனை உயர்த்திய உடையதாய் இருக்கின்றது.

‘4) மஹர்லோகம் : நிவ்ருத்த அதிகாரிகளும் அதிகார விரும்பிகளான இந்திரன் முதலானோரும் வாழும் இடம், 1 கொடி யோஜனை உயர்த்திய உடையதாய் இருக்கின்றது.

‘3) ஸுவர்லோகம் : சுகவாசிகளான க்ரஹ நக்ஷத்ர சந்திர தேவதைகள் வாழும் இடமாக 14 லக்ஷம் யோஜனை உயர்த்திய உடையதாய் இருக்கின்றது .

‘2) புவர்லோகம் : கந்தர்வாதிகள் வாழும் இடமாக  1  லக்ஷம் ஷயோஜனை உயர்த்திய உடையதாய் இருக்கின்றது 

‘1) பூமண்டலம் : பாத சாரிகளான மனுஷ்யாதிகள் வாழும் இடமாக ஏழு திவீப ஏழு கடல்களோடு அண்டகடாகம் வரை 50 கோடி யோஜனை பரப்பை உடையதாய் பூமண்டலத்தின் இடையே பூலோகம் இருக்கிறது

 

இந்த கேழ் லோகம் ஒவ்வொன்றும் ஆயிரம் யோஜனை உயர்த்தியையும் பரப்பையும் உடையதாய் தைத்யா தாநாவ, பன்னக, சுவர்ணாதிகள் வாழும் பிரதேசமாய் இருக்கின்றது

‘-2) அதலம்,

‘-3) விதலம்

‘-4) நிதலம்

‘-5) ரசாதலம்

‘-6) மஹாதலம்

‘-7) சுதலம்

‘-8) பாதாளம் 

தமோலோகத்துக்கு கீழ் ப்ரஹ்மாண்ட கர்ப உதகத்துக்கு மேல் இருக்கின்ற ப்ரதேசத்தில் நரகங்கள் இருக்கின்றன இந்த பிரதேசம் ஆயிரம் யியோஜனை உயர்த்தி உடையது.

 

ஸ்ரீபெரும்பூதூர் ஸ்ரீமத் பரமஹம்ஸேத்யாதி ஒன்றான திருவேங்கட இராமானுஜ எம்பார் ஜீயர் ஸ்வாமிகள் திருவடிகளே சரணம்,

அடியேன் (இளையால்வார்) ஸ்ரீனிவாச (தொடடயாச்சார்யார்) தாஸன்.

on October 29, 2020

இப்படிப்பட்ட இந்த தாழ்ந்த 14 லோகங்களையும் கொண்ட பல கோடி அண்டகடாகத்தை தாண்டி, நாம் செல்ல வேண்டிய இடம் ஸ்ரீவைகுண்டம் என்னும் நித்தியமான ஆந்தமயமான பரமபதம்.

on October 29, 2020

ElayaAlwar swamy,

I am providing my comments on satya loka posted by you.

I listened in Sri. Vellukkudi swamy’s upanyasam on வ்யூக rupam. He mentioned that Para Vasudevan exhibits as 1. வாசுதேவன், 2. சங்கர்ஷணன், 3. ப்ரத்யும்நன் and 4. அநிருத்தன் in வ்யூக rupam.   Of these,  ப்ரத்யும்நன், அநிருத்தன் and  சங்கர்ஷணன் are for carrying out creation, protection and destruction resp. I remember, to have listened, in வ்யூக rupam, only வாசுதேவன் is the amsam of Para Vasudevan and does not get dissolve during mahapralayam. In such a case, if one call Brahma and Siva as Jeevatma, then Is Lord Vishnu is also a jeevatma?. I believe all three of them are having their own lokas.

Kindly correct me if I am wrong.

adiyen

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1 on October 29, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,

Jai Shree Lakshmi Narasimha!

Kongilpiratti  alias Elayalwaar Swami, Dhanyosmi for the detailed description.

Most part seems to be correct except fort the description of satyaloka.

“முழுமுதற்கடவுள் பரமாத்மா விஷ்ணுவுடன் அவர் திவ்ய புத்திரன் ஜீவாத்மா ப்ரஹ்மாவும், அவருடைய புத்திரன் ஜீவாத்மா சிவனும் உள்ள இடமாகும். “

Not sure about the reference you had heard or read this statement..

If we see the first post in this thread by SowriRaajan swami..”ஸத்ய லோகத்தில் பிரம்மனும் வாழ்வதாக அறிந்திருக்கிறோம்.” So Lord Brahma resides in Satya loka..that is why it has another name as Brahmaloka as well.. 

If Lord  VIshnu or Lord Shiva reside there it will not be called as Brahmaloka.

  1. Also in audio  594 https://www.kinchit.org/kinchit-en-pani/551-600/ Velukudi swami has explained clearly that Kailaayam or shiva loka is a separate planet and Swami also emphasized that there are proofs in Vishnu Puraanam and Shiva Puranaam.

       2. Shiva loka is above these 14 lokas below Lord Hari’s planet. Reference Brahma samhita

           5.43.

“goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya
devi maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu
te te prabhāva-nicayā vihitāś ca yena
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi”

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bs/5/43/

I think these two references are sufficient.

3. But just sharing another source, but since it is not very authoritative unless the source  Brahma Vaivarta Purana is actually verified for the informtation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goloka

This source claims that  Shiva loka is north of Goloka.

I accept that the reference 3 may not be perfect .but the first two references are sufficient to conclude that Shiva loka is not part of these 14 planetary systems.

Dhanyosmi.

Thirukachi Dasanudasan

on October 31, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Dear All Devotees,

Please check the below second post of adiyen and ignore the below immediate adiyen’s post due to some font error’s, so adiyen reposted it.

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayacharyAr) Dasan.

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2 on October 31, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Asmadh Sarva Gurubyo Namaha,

Namaskaram All Swami’s who has similar doubhts,

Though it is very encouraging to see devotees doing Shravanam on Velukkudi Swami’s Basic audios, in which Swami mostly says in Creamy way only on deeper subjects, which tends the listeners to populate further questions.

No worries, there are “Swapadesha Arthams (deeper meaning)” Swami’s audios which clears further doubhts. If devotees hasn’t got yet chance to hear it, then Adiyen will share few from Velukkudi Swami’s such Deeper audios on same subject. It is just an extrapolation or Breakdown of what Adiyen posted above for the initial question with Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami’s Aasirvadham.

The Baseline concept/Purpose of Creation needs to be Understood first, if not, our focus will stick to the lower level 14 lokas in each Andam, as who is staying in which loka? since knowing that is not purpose of life (birth), rather reaching Moksham for Nithya Kainkaryam to Sriman NarayanA is purpose of life. However Adiyen will still clarify with Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami’s Aasirvadham for further above populated question extracted from adiyen’s above post for the sake of devotees quest.

Details pulled from Velukkudi Swami’s “Yathindra Mata Deepika” and other Swapadesha Arthams Swami’s audios like Tatva Trayam, Srimad Bhagavatam, Vishnu Puram. Interested devotees when get chance, please listen for BhagavAt/Acharya/Velukkudi Swami’s Anugraham for clear details.

Anyway,

Baseline is to first understand BhagavAn Sriman NarayanA DIRECT AVATARS (a.k.a POORNA AVATARS), without imparting any powers to any other JeevAthmas, means HE IS BY HIMSELF AS PARAMATHMA AVATAR.

POORNA Avataram‘ is BhagavAn Sriman NARAYAN HIMSELF with “NO DISCHARGE” of powers to other Jeevathmas.

Example: SriRama, SriKrishna, Sri Narasimha, Sri Varaha, SriVishnu etc… with ALL SUPREME SIX PRIMARY DIVINE QUALITIES (Kalyana Gunas) as

1.Gyana (Ultimate Knowledge),
2.Bhala (Ultimate Strength),
3.Veerya (Ultimate Valour),
4.Aishwarya (Ultimate Opulence),
5.Shakthi (Ultimate Energy),
6.Thejas (Ultimate Luster).


Poorna Avataram of BhagavAn is classified as 5 types:

* Para (Para VASUDEVAN in SriVaikuntam outside Material world/Leela Vibhoothi),

* Vyuha (as below when he jumps to Material world),

* Vibhava (avatars taken inside an Andam of the Material world like Sri Rama, SriKrishna etc..

* Antaryamai (sitting Inside each of the JeevAthmas and monitoring us)

* Archai (In idol forms in temples/homes etc…)

Coming back to the Vyuha Avatram is classified into VasuDeva, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Sankarshana.

1.Vadudeva Avatram: after jumping from SriVaikuntam to Material world, HE is in Alamara Ilai as a baby prior to start creating the breakdown world’s/devas etc… Then HE takes three below Specific forms to utilize some of HIS Specific Divine Qualities (not all), so HE keeps specific names for such breakdown avatars.

2.Sankarshana Avatram utilizes Gyana & Bhala Qualities for TOTAL Dissolution.

3.Aniruddha Avataram utilizes Veerya & Aishwarya Qualities for TOTAL Protection.

4.Pradhyumna Avataram utilizes Shakthi & Thejas Qualities for TOTAL Creation.

These are BhagavAns DIRECT/POORNA Avatarams (No discharge of powers to other JeevAthmas yet).

**************

 

After the above baseline understanding, let’s go to the populated doubhts extracted from the answer.

There are two types of Creation process:

1) Advaraka Shrishti or Samashti Shristhi (Primary creation) :

Which is SOLEY done by BrahmaM “Sriman NarayanA (Pradhyumna)” only, just easily with HIS SANKALPAM (without any tools or without anyone support), since HE is the only “Sarvagjyan”. HE starts shrsiti only “SRI (MahaLakshmi) blinks HER eyes to Sriman NarayanA start Shrishti as Velukkudi Swamie has said in upanyasams (அவள் கண் இமைத்து காட்டின பின்பு அவன் படைக்கிறான்), why because each JeevAthmas, basically BhaddAthmas like us trapped in DEVA BODIES like Brahma,Shiva etc… or in ordinary human bodies like us, we all JeevAthmas are Perumal-Thayar Children (SOTTHU/Property) and we all need to reach Moksham (SriVsikuntam and not any other lokas) by either following 1) Bhakthi Yoga Margham (karma, gyana, bhakthi) like Brahma, Shiva etc… or choose 2) Sharanagathy Margham, or choose 3) Panchamopaya Margham like Ramanuja Sambhandhi Dasas from any Sampradhayams/religions. But unfortunately because of JeevAthmas Vaasanaas, Ruchi, Karma’s, Avidhya & Prakrithi Sambhandham, they tend to utilize their Jeeva Swathantriyam to reach other Material lokas like Indra loka, Shiva loka, Brahma lokam etc…and some worse case to Naraka loka etc,…and only some reach Moksham/SriVaikuntam (Permanent Relief from Material world) following one of the above three paths.

Eitherway, in this Advaraka Shrishti (Primary Creation), below is what Pradhyumnan does:

First thing Pradhyumnan created the Outside layers of ONE Andam like a Jackfruit outside layers (like Shell first then Fruit inside):

‘1)அவ்யக்த ஆவரணம்

‘2)மஹத் ஆவரணம்,

‘3)அகங்கார ஆவரணம் (split to three Satvika, Rajasa, Tamasa Ahankarams)

‘4)ஆகாச ஆவரணம்

‘5)வாயு ஆவரணம்

‘6)அக்னி ஆவரணம்

‘7)ஜல ஆவரணம்

Then BhagavAn also now starts mixing the Prakrutha Pancha Bhoothams ( Space, Water, Air, Fire, Land) by a process called “Panchikaranam” in proper proportions prior to creating the 14 lokas which was detailed out by BadrinarayanA Ramanuja Dasan Swami clearly in the other thread with Acharya Krupai as below:

https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/panchikarnam/

Then BhagavAn creates the 14 lokas inside the above untouchable shell. These 14 lokas are like the Juicy Fruit along with Sour Flesh inside the Jackfruit .

These 14 lokas and the inhabitants as adiyen mentioned in above post refered from The SriPerumbuthoor’s Embar JeeyAr Acharya MAP drawn on 1873 with description AS IT IS as adiyen mentioned above at the end of the post.

After the PRIMARY CREATION is all Set for BhagavAn’s Leelai, then HE chooses a <span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>Jeevathma who has accumulated “EXPLEMPARY PUNYA KARMAS” <span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>by NOT surrendering its Punya karma as “Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu”<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”> are given chance to take the respective Deva responsibilities.

2) Sadvaraka Shrishti or Vyeshti Shrishti (Secondary creation)

Handed over by “Pradhyumnan (Supreme ParamAthma) to a JeevAthma that was given a 1st Body basically Brahma. Then BhagavAn teaches all Vedas/Shastras on how to create further, since Brahma doesn’t have ability to create everything from Sankalpam since He is a JeevAthma and not ParamAthma. So Velukkudi Swami has said that Brahma keeps chanting the Vedas while doing the secondary creation,and He has no powers to alter any of the Primary creation done by BhagavAn. Brahma is like a Application Usage Engineer and Not Application Developer.

<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>Then Brahma starts the secondary creation process and <span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>He chooses other JeevAthmas<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”> for Manu, Saanthanika kumaras, Rudra etc to support the creation process.

<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>Reference:

<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>நாராயணன் படைத்தான் நான்முகனை <span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>(Brahma), <span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>நான்முகனுக்கு ஏரார் சிவன் <span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>(Brahma’s Son) <span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>பிறந்தான் என்றும் சொல்”

<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>[This is the “<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>Naan Mughan Thiruvandhaadhi<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”> Divya Prabhandham Thaniyan” which is originally taken from Srimad Bhagavatham by Poorvacharyas]

<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>Likewise, there are COUNTLESS Andams each having One Bramha, One Rudra posts occupied by different JeevAthmas, and power of one Brahma in one andam can vary between other brahmas/rudras of other andams.

<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>****************************

<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>‘3) Sadvaraka Samharam (Secondary Dissolution)

<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>After Rudra is created by Brahma, BhagavAn assigns the secondary Dissolution process which i<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>s taken care by Rudra as a service to BhagavAn (like l<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>ocal samharam only within an Andam)

<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>‘4) Advaraka Samharam (PRIMARY Dissolution)

<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>But remembe<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>r <span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>Rudra has no powers<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”> t<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>o do the Major samharam like Maha Pralayam which is consolidating/collapsing all 14 lokas of an Andam plus SHUTTING DOWN the ENTIRE COUNTLESS ANDAMS, since that is done by the <span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>Supreme BhagavAn<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”> Sriman NarayanA in the Vyuha form <span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>Sankarshana<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”> Avatram who utilizes Gyana & Bhala Divine Qualities for TOTAL Dissolution. It is called <span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>Advaraka Samharam<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>.

<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>Praakritha Pralayam (Maha Pralayam)<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”> <span style="color: #3b3b3b;”> is done<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”> After Brahma’s 100 years, all the 14 lokams which constitutes One Andam including Brahma lokam is disssolved. Samsaram (Material world) still exists, but Shristi (creation) is not started and those JeevAthmas who didnot go to Moksham wait for a body till BhagavAn starts next Shristi to follow either of the Three Marghams for Moksham as mentioned initially above.

<span style="color: #3b3b3b;”>‘5) Advaraka Rakshanam (PRIMARY Protection)

This is done by BhagavAn HIMSELF who is in Vyuha form as Aniruddhan Avataram who utilizes two of HIS Veerya & Aishwarya Divine Qualities for TOTAL Protection.

So Aniruddhan takes another direct Vyuha form as Vishnu in each Andam to Protect everyone and HE resides along with Brahma and Rudra in Sathya loka. (Sathya Loka is vast and there are separate small lokas like Kaarya Vaikuntam for Vishnu, Brahma loka for Brahma, Shiva loka for Shiva etc within as adiyen mentioned in the above first post for 14 loka inhabitants classification). But “SriVaikuntam” is separate which is beyond all these countless Andams beyond VirajAi Nadhi.

This makes it appear as if Vishnu, Brahma, Shiva are ThriMoorthis (popularly said in practical world) but they are not same since Vishnu is Poorna Avatar (BhagavAn HIMSELF) and other two are JeevAthmas as mentioned initially in above thread. This is like a Company President (Aniruddhan) who is In-Charge for the entire company and others report to him, still keeps one of departments under his control with in his company like Financial department as Vishnu.

BhagavAn doesn’t give this PROTECTION responsibility to anyone else, since we all JeevAthmas (BhaddAthmas) either in Deva Bodies like Brahma, Rudra, etc.. or in ordinary Human bodies like us, ALL are Children/SOTTHU (Property) of the PARENTS ThayAr(SrimAn)-Perumal(NarayanA) , and ONLY they can protect all of us.

**********************************

So adiyen’s initial post is specific to the question about the 14 lokas only, but this post has more details but short. For further generated questions, adiyen would recommend interested devotees to listen Velukkudi Swami’s “Yathindra Mata Deepika” and other Swapadesha Arthams Swami’s audios like Tatva Trayam, Srimad Bhagavatam, Vishnu Puram to clear ones mind and for BhagavAt Anubhavam.

 

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.

UYYA ORAEY VAZHI UDAYAVAR THIRUVADI

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

on October 31, 2020

Reposting as below eliminating the font error’s in above post.

on October 31, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Asmadh Sarva Gurubyo Namaha,

Namaskaram All Swami’s who has similar doubhts,

Though it is very encouraging to see devotees doing Shravanam on Velukkudi Swami’s Basic audios, in which Swami mostly says in Creamy way only on deeper subjects, which tends the listeners to populate further questions.

No worries, there are “Swapadesha Arthams (deeper meaning)” Swami’s audios which clears further doubhts. If devotees hasn’t got yet chance to hear it, then Adiyen will share few from Velukkudi Swami’s such Deeper audios on same subject. It is just an extrapolation or Breakdown of what Adiyen posted above for the initial question with Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami’s Aasirvadham.

The Baseline concept/Purpose of Creation needs to be Understood first, if not, our focus will stick to the lower level 14 lokas in each Andam, as who is staying in which loka? since knowing that is not purpose of life (birth), rather reaching Moksham for Nithya Kainkaryam to Sriman NarayanA is purpose of life. However Adiyen will still clarify with Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami’s Aasirvadham for further above populated question extracted from adiyen’s above post for the sake of devotees quest.

Details pulled from Velukkudi Swami’s “Yathindra Mata Deepika” and other Swapadesha Arthams Swami’s audios like Tatva Trayam, Srimad Bhagavatam, Vishnu Puram. Interested devotees when get chance, please listen for BhagavAt/Acharya/Velukkudi Swami’s Anugraham for clear details.

Anyway,

Baseline is to first understand BhagavAn Sriman NarayanA DIRECT AVATARS (a.k.a POORNA AVATARS), without imparting any powers to any other JeevAthmas, means HE IS BY HIMSELF AS PARAMATHMA AVATAR.

POORNA Avataram‘ is BhagavAn Sriman NARAYAN HIMSELF with “NO DISCHARGE” of powers to other Jeevathmas.

Example: SriRama, SriKrishna, Sri Narasimha, Sri Varaha, SriVishnu etc… with ALL SUPREME SIX PRIMARY DIVINE QUALITIES (Kalyana Gunas) as

1.Gyana (Ultimate Knowledge),
2.Bhala (Ultimate Strength),
3.Veerya (Ultimate Valour),
4.Aishwarya (Ultimate Opulence),
5.Shakthi (Ultimate Energy),
6.Thejas (Ultimate Luster).

Poorna Avataram of BhagavAn is classified as 5 types:

Para (Para VASUDEVAN in SriVaikuntam outside Material world/Leela Vibhoothi),

Vyuha (as below when he jumps to Material world),

Vibhava (avatars taken inside an Andam of the Material world like Sri Rama, SriKrishna etc..

Antaryamai (sitting Inside each of the JeevAthmas and monitoring us)

Archai (In idol forms in temples/homes etc…)

Coming back to the Vyuha Avatram is classified into VasuDeva, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Sankarshana.

1.Vadudeva Avatram: after jumping from SriVaikuntam to Material world, HE is in Alamara Ilai as a baby prior to start creating the breakdown world’s/devas etc… Then HE takes three below Specific forms to utilize some of HIS Specific Divine Qualities (not all), so HE keeps specific names for such breakdown avatars.

2.Sankarshana Avatram utilizes Gyana & Bhala Qualities for TOTAL Dissolution.

3.Aniruddha Avataram utilizes Veerya & Aishwarya Qualities for TOTAL Protection.

4.Pradhyumna Avataram utilizes Shakthi & Thejas Qualities for TOTAL Creation.

These are BhagavAns DIRECT/POORNA Avatarams (No discharge of powers to other JeevAthmas yet).

**************

 

After the above baseline understanding, let’s go to the populated doubhts extracted from the answer.

There are two types of Creation process:

1) Advaraka Shrishti or Samashti Shristhi (Primary creation) :

Which is SOLEY done by BrahmaM “Sriman NarayanA (Pradhyumna)” only, just easily with HIS SANKALPAM (without any tools or without anyone support), since HE is the only “Sarvagjyan”. HE starts shrsiti only “SRI (MahaLakshmi) blinks HER eyes to Sriman NarayanA start Shrishti as Velukkudi Swamie has said in upanyasams (அவள் கண் இமைத்து காட்டின பின்பு அவன் படைக்கிறான்), why because each JeevAthmas, basically BhaddAthmas like us trapped in DEVA BODIES like Brahma,Shiva etc… or in ordinary human bodies like us, we all JeevAthmas are Perumal-Thayar Children (SOTTHU/Property) and we all need to reach Moksham (SriVsikuntam and not any other lokas) by either following 1) Bhakthi Yoga Margham (karma, gyana, bhakthi) like Brahma, Shiva etc… or choose 2) Sharanagathy Margham, or choose 3) Panchamopaya Margham like Ramanuja Sambhandhi Dasas from any Sampradhayams/religions. But unfortunately because of JeevAthmas Vaasanaas, Ruchi, Karma’s, Avidhya & Prakrithi Sambhandham, they tend to utilize their Jeeva Swathantriyam to reach other Material lokas like Indra loka, Shiva loka, Brahma lokam etc…and some worse case to Naraka loka etc,…and only some reach Moksham/SriVaikuntam (Permanent Relief from Material world) following one of the above three paths.

Eitherway, in this Advaraka Shrishti (Primary Creation), below is what Pradhyumnan does:

First thing Pradhyumnan created the Outside layers of ONE Andam like a Jackfruit outside layers (like Shell first then Fruit inside):

‘1)அவ்யக்த ஆவரணம்

‘2)மஹத் ஆவரணம்,

‘3)அகங்கார ஆவரணம் (split to three Satvika, Rajasa, Tamasa Ahankarams)

‘4)ஆகாச ஆவரணம்

‘5)வாயு ஆவரணம்

‘6)அக்னி ஆவரணம்

‘7)ஜல ஆவரணம்

Then BhagavAn also now starts mixing the Prakrutha Pancha Bhoothams ( Space, Water, Air, Fire, Land) by a process called “Panchikaranam” in proper proportions prior to creating the 14 lokas which was detailed out by BadrinarayanA Ramanuja Dasan Swami clearly in the other thread with Acharya Krupai as below:

https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/panchikarnam/

Then BhagavAn creates the 14 lokas inside the above untouchable shell. These 14 lokas are like the Juicy Fruit along with Sour Flesh inside the Jackfruit .

These 14 lokas and the inhabitants as adiyen mentioned in above post referred from The SriPerumbuthoor’s Embar JeeyAr Acharya MAP drawn on 1873 with description AS IT IS as adiyen mentioned above at the end of the post.

After the PRIMARY CREATION is all Set for BhagavAn’s Leelai, then HE chooses a Jeevathma who has accumulated “EXPLEMPARY PUNYA KARMAS” by NOT surrendering its Punya karma as “Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu”are given chance to take the respective Deva responsibilities.

2) Sadvaraka Shrishti or Vyeshti Shrishti (Secondary creation)

Handed over by “Pradhyumnan (Supreme ParamAthma) to a JeevAthma that was given a 1st Body basically Brahma. Then BhagavAn teaches all Vedas/Shastras on how to create further, since Brahma doesn’t have ability to create everything from Sankalpam since He is a JeevAthma and not ParamAthma. So Velukkudi Swami has said that Brahma keeps chanting the Vedas while doing the secondary creation,and He has no powers to alter any of the Primary creation done by BhagavAn. Brahma is like a Application Usage Engineer and Not Application Developer.

Then Brahma starts the secondary creation process and He chooses other JeevAthmas for Manu, Saanthanika kumaras, Rudra etc to support the creation process.

Reference:

“நாராயணன் படைத்தான் நான்முகனை (Brahma), நான்முகனுக்கு ஏரார் சிவன் (Brahma’s Son) பிறந்தான் என்றும் சொல்”

[This is the Naan Mughan Thiruvandhaadhi Divya Prabhandham Thaniyan” which is originally taken from Srimad Bhagavatham by Poorvacharyas]

Likewise, there are COUNTLESS Andams each having One Bramha, One Rudra posts occupied by different JeevAthmas, and power of one Brahma in one andam can vary between other brahmas/rudras of other andams.

****************************

‘3) Sadvaraka Samharam (Secondary Dissolution)

After Rudra is created by Brahma, BhagavAn assigns the secondary Dissolution process which is taken care by Rudra as a service to BhagavAn (like local samharam only within an Andam)

‘4) Advaraka Samharam (PRIMARY Dissolution)

But remember Rudra has no powers to do the Major samharam like Maha Pralayam which is consolidating/collapsing all 14 lokas of an Andam plus SHUTTING DOWN the ENTIRE COUNTLESS ANDAMS, since that is done by the Supreme BhagavAn Sriman NarayanA in the Vyuha form Sankarshana Avatram who utilizes Gyana & Bhala Divine Qualities for TOTAL Dissolution. It is called Advaraka Samharam.

Praakritha Pralayam (Maha Pralayam) is done After Brahma’s 100 years, all the 14 lokams which constitutes One Andam including Brahma lokam is disssolved. Samsaram (Material world) still exists, but Shristi (creation) is not started and those JeevAthmas who didnot go to Moksham wait for a body till BhagavAn starts next Shristi to follow either of the Three Marghams for Moksham as mentioned initially above.

‘5) Advaraka Rakshanam (PRIMARY Protection)

This is done by BhagavAn HIMSELF who is in Vyuha form as Aniruddhan Avataram who utilizes two of HIS Veerya & Aishwarya Divine Qualities for TOTAL Protection.

So Aniruddhan takes another direct Vyuha form as Vishnu in each Andam to Protect everyone and HE resides along with Brahma and Rudra in Sathya loka. (Sathya Loka is vast and there are separate small lokas like Kaarya Vaikuntam for Vishnu, Brahma loka for Brahma, Shiva loka for Shiva etc within as adiyen mentioned in the above first post for 14 loka inhabitants classification). But “SriVaikuntam” is separate which is beyond all these countless Andams beyond VirajAi Nadhi.

This makes it appear as if Vishnu, Brahma, Shiva are ThriMoorthis (popularly said in practical world) but they are not same since Vishnu is Poorna Avatar (BhagavAn HIMSELF) and other two are JeevAthmas as mentioned initially in above thread. This is like a Company President (Aniruddhan) who is In-Charge for the entire company and others report to him, still keeps one of departments under his control with in his company like Financial department as Vishnu.

BhagavAn doesn’t give this PROTECTION responsibility to anyone else, since we all JeevAthmas (BhaddAthmas) either in Deva Bodies like Brahma, Rudra, etc.. or in ordinary Human bodies like us, ALL are Children/SOTTHU (Property) of the PARENTS ThayAr(SrimAn)-Perumal(NarayanA) , and ONLY they can protect all of us.

**********************************

So adiyen’s initial post is specific to the question about the 14 lokas only, but this post has more details but short. For further generated questions, adiyen would recommend interested devotees to listen Velukkudi Swami’s “Yathindra Mata Deepika” and other Swapadesha Arthams Swami’s audios like Tatva Trayam, Srimad Bhagavatam, Vishnu Puram to clear ones mind and for BhagavAt Anubhavam.

 

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.

UYYA ORAEY VAZHI UDAYAVAR THIRUVADI

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

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0 on October 31, 2020

Namaskaram Swamis.

I am providing my statement and not the query.

The statement in the above post:

”since knowing that is not purpose of life (birth), rather reaching Moksham for Nithya Kainkaryam to Sriman NarayanA is purpose of life.”

There is no second thought about the importance of purpose of life, which I am aware. If I understood correctly, as indicated by the name of this forum namely “dharma-sandeha”, is meant for communication & discussion on the spiritual topics. Hence, I have enrolled here as a member, so also others, I believe. All are not aware about the deep details of the spiritual field or atleast myself. Hence, while one continue his endeavor for the purpose of life, it becomes a necessity to pose queries for clarification and if necessary to counter query to the responder to get more clarity. Lord Narayanan only possess perfect knowledge. I believe, this sort of discussion is essential and healthy in spiritual field. I hope similar practice was followed earlier and was done by the acharyas. It is better if the knowledge acquired is disseminated and responding queries support in that line.

I thank for all the responses, support and cooperation provided by ElayaAlwar swamy. I have decided to restrain to the extent possible in posting queries to his post.

Kindly excuse me if my posting has hurt anybody.

adiyen

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0 on November 1, 2020

Reposting the answer from the other thread for continuity of those who read this thread alone.

Sri Madhvacharya Namaha

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,

Jai Shree Krishna Caitanya!

Jai Shree Lakshminarasimha!

Namskaaram Elayalwaar swami. Surprised by your determination to post such long answers.. not many would be able to read them.. Suggest to post brief answers to the point if possible. We must learn from Velukkudi swami for his brief yet complete answers.

Regarding the point of discussion. We have had heated debates in the past.. https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/is-lord-siva-a-position/

https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/adikesava-perumal-temple-vs-padmanabhan-comparison/

But you were not able to provide satisfactory answers to my questions, but still you continue to hold your stand. It is OK it is your  personal thought and choice but only request is please post the references for what you quote here in this forum.

“Though it is very encouraging to see devotees doing Shravanam on Velukkudi Swami’s Basic audios, in which Swami mostly says in Creamy way only on deeper subjects, which tends the listeners to populate further questions.”

1+1 =2 taught in primary school holds good in Phd also. So I doubt the fact that when swami has said Shiva loka exists separately like vaikunta , in enpani audio and has given Vishnu puraanam as reference, he might not have said otherwise in deeper lectures. I think there could been a misunderstanding in absorbing what Swami said.

So perhaps if you can give me a vedic reference which states “Shiva loka is in satya loka” then we can end this debate.

I already provided above a scriptural reference (Brahma Samhita) which clearly states Shiva loka is above Devi loka ( 14 planetary system) and below Hari Loka. Would you accept the scripture written by Lord Brahma or would you not?

******************************************************************************************************

Other points that were raised this is not the main point of discussion but since you have discussed it i am sharing it here..

Reference of scripture

நாராயணன் படைத்தான் நான்முகனை (Brahma), நான்முகனுக்கு ஏரார் சிவன் (Brahma’s Son) பிறந்தான் என்றும் சொல்

For explaining this and for proper understanding please use this example of explanation given in Mimamsa to show that sound is eternal and not temporarily created when we speak..

“Samam tu tatra darshanam”–The cognition of Shabda right after our effort does not necessarily mean that Shabda is created at that time. Something that exists even before can attain manifestation due to our effort. This is called Abhivyakti. Although Akasha exists every where always,it is visible below the ground only when earth is removed from there and a pit is made”

So Lord Shiva exists in Shiva loka and may manifest himself through Brahma in Satya loka.

Adiyen

Thirukachi daasanudasan

P.S: Elayalwaar used to accept advice given by Thirukachi Nambi :)-

 
 
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