Brahmam, Jiva and Jadam

Danyosmi Swamy. As stated already, Adiyen is not qualified to say if it is right or wrong.

However, thank you for detail explanation.

Daasanu Daasan Srinivasan

Aneka Koti Namaskarams Swamy

One more question. In fact, it is same question again.

“Brahmam is Shariri of Jiva and Jada”, agreed. Brahmam has 5 forms. In the state of Antaryami, He is Shariri of Jiva and Jada. But, His other forms like Para roopa and may be even Vyuha roopas are infinite and cannot be understood. Though there is no difference between His 5 forms, His real form is infinite. His infinite attributes constitute His Sharira.

Now the question. Upanishads say only Brahmam was there at the beginning. Then where from these Jiva and Jada came? In reality, Vedanta also says all three are actually eternally different and are sourceless. If Jada and Jiva are also eternal, then how come Brahmam alone was present at the beginning?

Hope it is certainly not a question like hen came from egg or egg came from hen. Because, this is only one way. Everyone and everything came from Brahmam only.

Clue: Vedanta quotes a spider spinning web to understand God, His creation and God as cause of creation.

Sri:

Achit/Jada also came from perumal only.

“Thoonil irundhu Perumal purapattAlum, thoonum perumAlukkul adangum. Thoonukkul perumAl adanga maataan” – Krishna Premi Swamy

Adiyen’s observation:
Achit tattvan dissolves into chit.

AgyanAm nyAnathAl adangividum

The pillar dissolves into Vishnu, Vishnu does not dissolve into pillar. (Vishnu= Knowledge and Pillar= Ignorance)

For this one:
“If Jada and Jiva are also eternal,”
Our human body transforms but soul does not transform. So soul is eternal and body is subject to change and not eternal. There is no specific identity to something which keeps changing. So the question of eternal being ruled out here.

Out of these janmAs do I identify myself as Vikram or elephant or ??

That’s why I asked what do we identify ourselves as, in moksha in dharma sandeha? I got theoritical answer body, senses, Ahankaram etc gets erased till vraja nadhi. Ideally I going to moksha is not at all relevant as I is self surrendered and no seperate identity required.

If I need to care my Athma going to moksham then it’s utter nonsense as there is nothing as my Athma. So you and me are same when it comes to moksham.

One Athma reaches his abode that’s all. It’s neither yours not mine because we cannot differentiate.

The drop getting mixed into ocean. “PRALAYAM”. Layam means mixing.

I am okay for healthy debates in this context with my limited ignorant knowledge.

For this statement:
“Clue: God is material cause (Upadana Karana), effective cause (Nimitta Karana) and supporting cause (Sahakari Karana). He is only cause but not transformation”

He is self manifestation not transformation.

Everything happens within himself. That’s the problem for us to understand. We have never witnessed something like that before.

Spiderweb is just an example for us to understand from real world. It creates the web from itself and dissolves it into itself.

But it has space to spit the web thread. Perumal has none beyond him.

Such a perumAl is infinite. So no limitations to him. His limitations are unknown to him as there is no such limitation.

“Moovulagu undu umizhndha mudhalvan” – Enga thuppuvaan? Idam illaiye!

Mudhalvan = Primordial
Moovulagu = Nithya, ubhaya, Leela vibhuthi

If Perumal needs to expose spider web where will he do? There is Nothing else other than him. There is no space beyond him.

He is “avikAran”.

“avikArAya shuddhAya nithyAya ParamaAthmanEy” – SahasranAmam
Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy explains “avikAran” in sahasranAma upanyasam beautifully.

“Na tasya pratima asti”
“There is no likeness of Him.”
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]3

Being quoted by ignorant other religions as to “no image of God”.

Let’s decode via vishistAdvaitam, there is nothing else other than god

“Ekameva adwitheeyam brahma” then where will such image fall?

If there is a moon, the light reflected on moon needs a river to reflect.

Here the moon , light and river all three are him. Where will such image reflect into?

Therefore ” Na tasya Prathima asthi”

Let those guys read this answer and see if it can be countered or making sense to them.

He is so big, that biggie will get into a NANO thread

“Kanni NUN siru thAmbinAl kattunna panniya perumAyan”

He is so small, baby Krishna but will show “Vishwaroopam”

It’s called aghatithagatana sAmarthyam

Aata thooki maatula podrathu
Maata thooki aatula podrathu
– Brahma mohanam Krishna leela in his Avatharam

He was cow, he was shepherd (Gopalan), he was himself.

“YAARUM PANNALA” – Srimushnam Andavan

Where will that fellow transform into? He is
“anthar bahischa tat sarvam vyApya nArAyana sthitha”:”

He is in , out and as is everywhere.

It’s called one stone 3 mangoes

1 Perumal 3 identities or perspective.

Advaitham, Dwaitam, vishistAdvaitam
Chit, achit , eshwaran

Avlo dhan

Dhanyosmi for letting adiyen talk few words about the greatest of the greatest great!

Please forgive mistakes Swamis

Dasanudasan

Aneka Koti Namaskarams Swami

Even in state of Moksha, Jiva does not dissolve in Ishwara. This is statement of Upanishads. He only attains Layam. We are incapable of differentiating but they are different only.

If I go to Tirumala, I attain layam with Lord Srinivasa and forget myself and surroundings that one minute. So, that one minute, I am in Advaita Anubhavam. But, it’s only an Anubhavam. I certainly don’t mingle with Perumal and vanish.

Father of Advaitam, Adishankara Bagavad Padar itself states that Jiva is comparable to Brahmam only in terms of bliss in Moksha and not in other aspects.

Listened to Dasa Upanishad CD by Shri Velukkudi Swami. He also says, if water droplets mingle with water, water level has to increase or decrease. But, there is no increase or decrease in Brahmam. So, there is no such dissolution in Brahmam. All three realities are always different. But, Brahmam is wide spread and omni present. This is the stand of Vedanta. While Jiva and Moola Prakriti are held by Perumal, they are yet different.

If only Brahmam existed at beginning, then how did Jivas separated from Brahmam fell into karma and agyanam. These cannot be answered. As per Vedanta, Jiva, Moola Prakriti and Brahmam are three eternal realities. If we say they come from Brahmam, then other two are not eternal.

Still Brahmam is material cause because He is Antaryami always.

Let us take an example similar to ocean. There is a crowd of 1 crore people and we are looking for 1 person in it. It may not be possible to find him as he lost identity and mingle with crowd. But, as an individual he is always individual and not vanished. Similar applies to water droplets in ocean.

So water droplets is not real mingling but only losing identity.

All these are from Pramanas like Upanishads and Brahma Sutras.

Adiyen wish to share line by line views but it will expand the length of answer

“Even in state of Moksha, Jiva does not dissolve in Ishwara. ” – Dissolve means not in literal terms

“Ahamannam Ahamannam AhamannAdho” – I am your food you are my food. – Veda

“We are incapable of differentiating but they are different only.” – True Perumal gives equal status but we don’t merge into him. TAtparyaChandrikA.

“If I go to Tirumala, I attain layam with Lord Srinivasa and forget myself and surroundings that one minute. So, that one minute, I am in Advaita Anubhavam. But, it’s only an Anubhavam. I certainly don’t mingle with Perumal and vanish.” – Every night in your deep sleep state your athma gets close to Perumal. Sushupti (Deep sleep). It happens daily not only at tirumala. We don’t realise in jagruth state.

“if water droplets mingle with water, water level has to increase or decrease. But, there is no increase or decrease in Brahmam” – He is avikAran. He is not subject to change. He is self manifested.

“So, there is no such dissolution in Brahmam. All three realities are always different. But, Brahmam is wide spread and omni present. This is the stand of Vedanta. While Jiva and Moola Prakriti are held by Perumal, they are yet different.”

– May be devar talking strongly from Madhwa standpoint. In Bhagavath Gita Krishna said “you will become what you think of during death” it doesn’t mean we will become Krishna if we think of Krishna during death.

We are Equalized but we don’t become brahmam.

TAtparyaChandrikA.

“If only Brahmam existed at beginning, then how did Jivas separated from Brahmam fell into karma and agyanam. These cannot be answered” – Please refer

Chandogya Upanishad sath vidhya prakaranam ‘sadheva soumya idham agra aaseeth ekameve adhvitheeyam’ – Perumal Sath aagavey irundhaar Krishna Premi Anna

http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia/oppiliappan/archives/apr06/msg00196.html

There is no Sristi without Brahmam. Creation is done from Moola Prakriti by Brahmam. At the same time, creation happens as Brahmam is Antaryami. So, raw material is Antaryami Brahmam but in reality, Brahmam and Jada are different. So, Brahmam is material cause but not material transformation.

“Till such time, all Jivas and Jada are held by the Lord and those are in Union with Him yet they are different from Him.”

When it’s in that state differentiation cannot be appreciated. Only after creation differential arises. It’s my opinion.

ChappAthi maavu example by Sri U.Ve. Villur NadAthur KarunAkarAchAr Swamy in TAtparyaChandrikA kAlakshEpam

ChappAthi maavu is same but one urundai is different when seperated. Corrects?

Appo vitrungo adhan cd irukke 🙂

Athatho Brahma Jignyasah. Brahma Araichi panlamnu parthen. Devarir eaapadi soldriro appadi. Idho ippove vittudren.

Swami,
Adiyen adhukkaga sollala. Topic vast madhri theriyadhu. Adhan Swami cd la explain pannitaarey thirumba en Pani la specific audience Ku cater pandra madhri ayidumey wider reach affect agum as there will be starters..

Also people are requested to buy CD and listen as those purchases are going to Sath kAryams adhan

May be an intro can be given in EnPani & not the intricacies

Dasanudasan

Swami,

Adiyen was careful in stating differentiation does not occur between mukhtAthmAs.

What’s difference between Srinivasan Pranesh Swamy’s soul and adiyen’s soul in moksham?

Please explain

Dasanudasan
????

Swamy,

Aneka Koti Namaskarams.

No tensions. Adiyen oru pechukkuthan sonnen. I too understand that Swami does Dharma Kainkaryams through these CDs. Adiyen Dasa Upanishadgalayum request pannalai. Only requested a 5 min audio in relation to our discussion.?

You are absolutely right Swami. You were careful in the statements. But, Adiyen’s question was slightly different. Adiyen discussed only about Brahma-Jiva-Jada bedha and not Jiva-Jiva bedha.

Swamy. Adiyen once told you that I am a Madhva by birth. So, may be you think I am always speaking from Dvaita Vedanta. Please forget that.

But, I am open to all three Philosophies. In fact, my life goal is to understand these three Siddhantas (Advaita, Visishtadvaita and Dvaita) and understand Vedanta as Vedanta.

Adishankararkum Ramanujarkum favoura pesi pala murai saka Madhvarkalidam Adiyen vaangi kattikondirukkiren.

Jiva Brahma bedham pesi Advaitikalidamum Vangikattindirukken.

Out of thousands and thousands of people only one starts doing Atma Vicharam. But, no one knows Atma completely as per Lord Krishna in Gita.

Advaitatin Thandhai Adishankarar endru dhan karudhapadugirar. Anal, Avarum Jiva Brahma bedam patri than pesugirar.

Jiva and Jiva may be equal in status in liberated state. You loose your name and I loose my name. Anandham may also be same. But, a Jiva differs from Jiva in Kainkaryam to Perumal.

As per Dvaita Sampardayam Brahma and Vayu do Pradhana Kainkaryams to Hari. But, here let me not take stand of Dvaita. Let us go by Srivaishnavam only.

If there is no difference among Muktatmas and the identity is completely lost, then why names like Anantan, Garudan, Vishwaksenar etc among Nithya Suris.

No one does Kainkaryam to Perumal like Thayaar. She enjoys highest level of Anandam by being one with Him.

Next is Seshan. Nindral Kudaiyam, Amarnthal Singasanamam etc. He is Pradana Kainkaryan among Nithya Suris.

Next comes Garuda, Vishwaksenar etc.

There is similarity in Jivas in terms of bliss but they don’t mingle. As you rightly said, they only lose identity.

However, the question raised was about differences between Brahmam and Jiva. It’s not between Jiva and Jiva. So, let us address the question directly without diversions.

It may be difficult to digest if I say Adishankara Bagavad Padar also differentiates Brahmam and Jiva even in state of liberation. Below is exactly from Shankara Brahma Sutra Bashya. I didn’t alter a single word from Advaita book I read.

“The released soul attains all lordly powers except the power of creation etc on account of Ishvara being the subject matter of all texts where creation etc are described and the released soul not being mentioned in that connection.

If it be said that the released soul attains absolute powers on account of direct teaching of scriptures, we say no, for the scriptures declare that the released souls attain Him who entrusts Sun etc with their offices and resides in those spheres.

And there is a form of the Supreme Lord which is beyond all created things, because so the scriptures declares His existence in a two fold form.

And thus Perception and Inference show.

And because of the indications in the scriptures of equality of the released soul with the Lord only with respect to enjoyment.

There is no return for these released souls on account of scriptural declaration to that effect”.

Brahma Sutras ends like this. Anal, Avarum Jiva Brahma bedam patri than pesugirar.

Brahma Sutras clearly states that Brahmam and Jiva can be compared only in terms of bliss but a Jiva does not attain absolute powers of Brahmam even in state of Moksha. We may debate that Chatur Muka Brahma and other Devas have ability to create. Still, they are capable of creating only because Brahmam is their Antaryami. Otherwise, they are not equal to Brahmam who is none other than Lord Sriman Narayana.

Further size of Jiva is analyzed in Brahma Sutras. Adi Shankarar says, if Jiva is infinite, then it means Jiva is omnipresent. One who is omnipresent cannot move as he has no place to move. But, as per scriptures, Jiva moves to various loka like Swarga, Naraka, Booloka etc. Hence infinity is applicable to Brahmam and a Jiva is only a size of anu (atom).

Thirumoolar says, “If we take a hair of cow and cut it into hundred thousand (that is one lakh parts), one part of that cut hair is the size of a Jiva”. But, Brahmam is always infinite.

In the state before creation, Jiva is in complete ignorance. Only released souls are not affected. Jada is insentient. But, Brahmam is 100% conscious always and omniscient. So, before Sristi, Jiva and Jada may be in union with Brahmam but they are certainly not comparable with Brahmam.

If all Jivas loses identity while in union with God before creation, then on what basis Jivas are segregated and Brahma with other Devas are identified for their posts.

Even in state of union with Brahmam before creation, Jivas remain separate from Brahmam and they are also differentiated from each other.

That’s why based on one’s good deeds, they get posts like Brahma, Rudra, Indra etc.

Nithya Samsaris, though in union with God before creation, fall into Samsara based on Karma.

When it comes to Jada, comparison with Brahmam is directly rejected by all Acharyas. Adishankara Bagavad Padar, in his Aparoksha Anubuthi directly states that one who compares Brahmam with Jada is Agyani. He also differentiates Brahmam and Jada.

Still not convinced. Below is from Sri Bashya of Bagavad Ramanujar.

ஜீவாத்மா முக்தியடைந்த பின், பரமாத்மாவை மிகவும் ஒத்த நிலையை அடைகிறான் என்பது உண்மையே. ஆனால் அவனுக்கு பரமாத்மாவைப்போல் உலகுகளை ஆக்கி, அளித்து, அழிக்கும் திறன் கிடையாது. ஏனெனில் பரமாத்மாவைப் பற்றிக் கூறுமிடங்களில் எல்லாம் பரமாத்மா தனித்திருந்து படைப்பவராகவே காட்டப்படுகிறது.

Bagavad Ramanujar sonnadhil tripthiya?

Further in Muktikopanishad, Hanuman asks Lord Rama about various types of Mukti.

Lord Rama says, Kaivalya Mukti is common for all. But, based on their Sadhanas their enjoyment in state of liberation differs into four types.

Anandham progresses more in below sequence of Muktis. They are Saloka, Sarubhya, Saameebya and Sayujya Mukti.

So, from my question, Brahmam is never completely equal to Jiva or Jada, may be in the state of union before creation or even in state of liberation.

Brahmam is Brahmam and He is the one supreme reality always in any situation.

This is not simply from Shri Madhvacharyar point of view, but from the view of even Adishankarar and Bagavad Ramanujar.

Brahma Sutras and Upanishads are Pramanas.

If you have even doubts in Upanishads, please read Brahma Sutras which are specifically given by Badarayanar to explain contradicting statements in Upanishads. Please buy some books rather than referring to internet. Books in my library and Archa Vigrahams are only property I felt worth spending for.

Swami. Adiyen type panni kai valikkaradhu. En manaivi pillai eppovum aanmigam pesinde irukkir engalai gavanikka mattengarirnu karichi kotra. Adiyene oru arai vekkadu. Idhulla aduthavalukku pramanathai eduthu solla adiyenukku gyanamillai. Pirarukku solvadhai vida Adiyen mudhalil gnanam adaivathu indriyamayadhadhu.

Edho Bagavanai pattri pesumbodhu indha ulagathaiye marandhu magizhchiyil thilaikiren. Otherwise, I never thought of debating with anyone. Only happiness i have in this world is thinking, speaking, gaining knowledge about Baghavan and doing Kainkaryams to His Archa. Iruppinum Samsara bhandam azhaikiradhu.

Thaane Bhagavanudaya sothu endru ninaikkamal adiyenai avargal sothaga ninaikirargal. Satru vittu koduthuthan pogavendi irukkiradhu.

Agave vidai perugiren. Manam punpadum padi yedhavadhu pesiyirundhal mannikkavum.

Adiyenin Achariyarana Shri Raghavendra Swamigal Thirupadhangalukkum pala Dharma kainkaryangal seiyyum adiyenin Manasiga Acharyar Shri Velukkudi Swamigalin Thirupadhangalukkum adiyenin aneka Koti namaskarangal.

Anmigathil sandheham iruppin thelivirkaga Shri Velukkudi Swamigalidam nichayam varuven. Enpani audiokkal moolam migundha payan perugiren.

Shri Velukkudi Swamigalidam indha jenmavileye Adiyen mukthiadaiya vendum endru aasirvadhikkumaru vendugiren. Acharyar recommendation illama Moksham kidaiyadhu.

Daasanu Daasan Srinivasan Pranesh.

Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Hare Krishna!

Aneha koti Namaskaram Swami! Swami’s situation is very common for most of the grahasthas. Adiyen gets bliss from Velukkudi swami’s upanyasams (specifically Bhagavad Gita & Vishnu sahasranamam) both are very ‘extensive’ discourses, in addition to the interactions with devotees through this forum.

May be we should plan on meeting in person sometime (at least on occasions like Janmashtami etc.,) OR Kinchitkaram runs programs where we can do kainkaryam to old temples (2 days or so in a year) where we can meet, discuss and also do kainkaryam in parallel. We can make it work based on the interest level & personal schedules.

Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Aneka Koti Namaskarams Swami

Sure. Let us plan. Swami, Adiyen’s samsara life is not similar to that of many.

Adiyen is actually running a WhatsApp group with 100 plus people where five of us present 5 scriptures parallely to all. One or two audios or text a week. Adiyen has taken Valmiki Ramayanam.

Adiyen also conduct monthly Satsangams where one Purana and one Upanishad is presented by two different people to around 20+ members who attend this face to face meet. Others also give their understanding. People from all three Philosophies attend. We collect Rs. 100 from attendees and use it for Darma Kainkaryams. Next Upanishad is Adiyen’s turn.

Plus Adiyen is also editing a magazine with articles from various authors of our group and publish them monthly for internal circulation. Adiyen also used to write 2 out of 5 articles.

Apart from above, Adiyen also have interests to write some books and leave for future generations with an attempt to unite Siddhantas and project as one Vedanta. Adiyenukku ippo nichayam thaguthi illai. Niraiverumo illayo Acharyarukkum Bagavanukkume velicham.

Ivai yellam adiyenukku Acharyar pichai alitha gnanathirku nandri kadan.

Apart from all these Adiyen also focus on family and have responsibilities to support them. Adiyen have 4 years old son and he knows Vedanta better than me. But, he expects me to spend time with him always. He gets angry if I study books or use mobile in his presence.

Job pressure above all. Adiyen is working as a Mechanical Engineer.

We have a miniature of Tirumala at home and my father does all Kainkaryams daily including Suprabhatam, Thomala Seva, Sahasranama Archana, weekly Abishekam, Ashtadala Pada Padmaradhanam, Kalyanotsavam, Arjita Brahmotsavam, Vasanthotsavam, Sahasradeepalankara, Ekantaseva, yearly Brahmotsavam etc for both Perumal and Thayaar as done in Tirumala. He is retired and free. His only desire is that his sons should learn them from him and continue Kainkaryams after his departure to lotus feet of Lord. So, this is prime responsibility of Adiyen and handover the Archa Vigrahams of Perumal and Thayaar to next generation as per his wish.

Past few weeks, I also started involving in Darma Sandeha discussion as Adiyen really enjoy them. So, family could not digest all totally sacrifice Adiyen. Otherwise, they permit Adiyen to involve in Aanmigam. Looks like their desires are also honest. That’s what Adiyen tried to convey but didn’t write in detail earlier.

I am very much interested to involve in group meetings, Upanyasam by Shri Velukkudi Swamy. I will surely involve in Dharma Kainkaryams as best as Adiyen could do.

I don’t even know why Adiyen is saying all these. But, this is Adiyen’s real situation.

Adiyen’s WhatsApp number is 9940134592. Mostly Kainkaryams done by Swamy are informed through Enpani. Apart from that, if something is there, kindly let Adiyen know. Adiyen will surely involve if it’s practically feasible at that situation.

Daasanu Daasan Srinivasan Pranesh

Actually Adiyen was interested in Sanyasa before marriage because Adiyen realized the pain of samsara. But, kalyanam pannikkama sanyasam vaanginda intha jenmathil unakku naan Moksham tharamattennu Thiruppernagar Bhattar mel avesamaga vandhu Perumal than sonnar. Perumal kattalaiyai eppadi meera mudiyum?

Samsarathulla vizhunthachu. Avalukku seiyya vendiyatha edirpaarpugala poorthi pannidhan aga vendum. Ellam Perumal Thaayar manapadi nadakattum.

Hare Krishna!

Aneha Koti Namaskaram Swami!  Mannikkavum swami, Adiyen misunderstood that Swami is also a beginner like Adiyen. Whatever Swami is doing, is very exhaustive and must be inspiring to many beginners like Adiyen. “Unity in diversity” is what is our strength and swami’s attempt in unifying different Vedanta is a great attempt and Adiyen is sure the lord will shower his bless and mercy in making it successful.

Sorry swami, Adiyen is not in whatsapp, will make a note of the number. If swami can share the details of next monthly satsang, it will be Adiyen’s honor to join. Adiyen lives in Medavakkam.

Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Aneka Koti Namaskarams Swami

Adiyen is certainly a beginner only. No doubt in that. Brahmam can never be comprehended completely as He is infinite. We can only understand His infinity as a result of reading scriptures. We can only gain knowledge and follow to the extent we are capable of. Reward of that is Moksha which is granted by Perumal and not attained on our own efforts. So, please do not consider Adiyen as learned.

Sure Swamy. Please drop a sms to Adiyen’s number 9940134592. Let us surely meet one day. Adiyen is in Madipakkam.

Let us together try to take part in Shri Velukkudi Swamy Kainkaryams and also learn from each other under guidance of Upanyasams by Shri Velukkudi Swamy.

Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Danyosmi. Thank you for a detail explanation.

Daasanu Daasan Srinivasan

Thayee. Adiyenin oru siru vinnappam. Karuthu endru kooda vaithu kollalam. Thavariruppin Mannikkavum.

I too listened to Enpani audios. Swamy said, in Sathas, people used to debate based on Pramanas. But, many people do baseless debates, which may be flagged by Swamy.

As long as intention of debates is to learn something, it should not be a threat. Debates done to win are only problems.

Adishankarar debated with Buddhists and we have flourished Sanathana Dharma now in hands.

Ramanujar raised questions against Yadavaprakasar and other Advaitins. He had lot of challenges in establishing back Sri Vaishnavam. He saved Sri Vaishnava Sampardayam.

Madhvar also debated even against his guru and shown us Dvaita Sampardayam.

If we see our history, all sampardayams are established only after healthy debates.

They didn’t hesitate to raise a flag even against their Gurus, when the statements are not in agreement with Pramanas.

You may say they are Avathara Purushas and we are nothing. Agreed. We are yet to begin and they are Aparoksha Gnanis.

However, at our level, healthy debates to learn based on Pramanas should be ok. Swamy may or may not accept in this group. But, I am speaking in general.

There are some baseless debates like, “Why should I believe in Sabdha Pramana?”. These kind of debates to be certainly avoided. Convincing answers can be given only through Sabdha Pramana. If Sabdha Pramana itself is questioned?

One may debate, “Why should I believe in God?”.

I am not knowledgeable enough to completely understand intention behind Swamy speeches in Enpani audios.

But, I think the intention of Swamy’s speech would have been to stop baseless debates.

In other audios, Swamy says, “Baghavanai patri niraya discuss pannanum. Naan sonnadhu sadharana discussions patri”.

Sanadhana dharmatha spread panna niraya per munvaranum. Etc.

So, I believe Swami is fine with debates based on Pramanas that promote learning of scriptures. Otherwise, technology is advanced. So, members would have been given the choice of raising questions alone and may be blocked from discussions.

However, your point is well taken. Adiyen would not debate even based on Pramanas due to time constraints as told already. But, will come up with doubts if any in Sastras.

Your reply for ways to Moksham was awesome. Thank you very much for detail explanations.

Shri Velukkudi Swamigalin Porpadhangalukku Adiyenin Aneka Koti Namaskarams.

Swamy. Fine. Let us stop the debate. It’s not convincing to me. Thats all. It is also vice versa. If we deserve, we will understand everything.

Ok. Adiyen is not a qualified Visishtadvaiti. But, you are the one. Let us not stretch it based on each other’s reply. Let us focus on question if possible but not link with other threads of yours and carry on the debates indefinitely. The debates are not desired also in this forum.

Pramanas are already given. We can give Pramanas but acceptance is left to individual. We cannot expect that what ever we say should be accepted by others. We both go by each other’s bias at the end.

Sruti and Smriti never contradicts. But, if we feel that there is a contradiction, then Sruti takes precedence over Smriti.

Further the question asked is not about liberated souls. It is about Jiva with karma and Jada held by Lord Himself before creation. It represents non-liberated souls first of all. But, we both are discussing indefinitely on liberated souls. Let us see how Vaikuntam is, after first of all liberating.

If there is no difference between Jiva in karma and Jada held with Brahmam before creation, you may see Jiva and Jada as equal to Brahmam. It’s not going to affect Adiyen in any way. Adiyen is closing Adiyen’s question and no more reply is desired by Adiyen.

Danyosmi.

Hare Krishna! Aneha Koti Namaskaram!

Manikkavum Swami. Adiyen would like to share few humble words (from discourses/books read). Request Swamis to forgive Adiyen if the response is inappropriate in anyway.

Fundamentals are the same however we slice and dice and try to bring in intricate differences. We may find our self comfortable, when others understand Vedanta (or any thing else for that matter)  “in the same” way as we understood. Which is why the sambradayam is given so importance as it “groups” people of similar thoughts (or people who accept or understand Vedanta in a given, prescribed way by purvacharyas).

For ex. Vishishtadvaita “already” reconciles both ‘advaita’ and ‘dvaita’ in a beautiful way which is why Adiyen finds it very compelling to accept it “as-is” and enjoy the company of Srivaishnava satsang (note, Gaudiya vaishnava’s ‘acintya beda-abeda’ philosophy also is only a different flavor of “Vishishtadvaita” that our Swami also uses to explain how ‘paramaatma’ is both same and different from ‘jiva’ “at the same time”.

So it may be difficult to accept a new line of interpretation (though it may well be a reflection of very same content) for people who have already accepted the philosophies as ‘given’/’delivered’ by purvacharyas. Also to Swami’s point of discussing a different topic against original topic is also a technique used by many purvacharyas especially when the topic in discussion can not be ‘directly’ addressed, so its not an attempt to divert but only a technique to make few questions clear in a ‘subtle’ way.

Heard from a devotee that in old days, debates are so critical (not just healthy debate as we call now) as the one who loses the debate has to ‘follow’ the one who wins 🙂 Please do not mistake or misinterpret this as a sign of discouraging any discussion but just sharing information.

Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Aneka Koti Namaskarams Swamy

It’s a public forum. I think it’s better to take the debate offline.

As you rightly said, fundamentals are same but they are different intrinsically. Ocean water and Uddharani water are same because both are water. But, ocean water has the capability to destroy a whole city while Uddharani water can’t even move a stone. If we say two things are equal, then in what aspects? They are not equal in all aspects as per Pramanas. So, a question of difference is always valid.

Only unity in diversity is Antaryami Brahmam.

Adiyen is also trying to say the same. In bliss and gnana, they are comparable but not in terms of capability and power.

Still Adiyen can give more Pramanas to with hold the debate but if it’s required, let us take it offline and not further in a public forum.

Thanks to everyone for detail explanations.

Danyosmi

Daasanu Daasan Srinivasan Pranesh

Adiyen,

*Uddharani water can’t even move a stone” Maharishi Agasthyar drank 7 oceans .with uddhrunni water ☺

Dasanudasan
????

Sri:

Just small advice, request devotees to get clarifications from their respective Acharyan and resume the quest for knowledge.

Discussing (debating) is a part time job for us. Whereas for AchArya purushAs researching in spirituality is the main job. They are more advanced in those subjects.

If not convincing let’s leave it but let’s not stop trying from different sources.

The greats had a logical endpoints.

ACHARYA DEVO BHAVA
????

Maharishi Agastyar got such power due to Brahmam or is powerful on self to drink everything without support of Brahmam?

Yes. It’s better to get clarified from Acharyan to avoid misguidance.

We shall understand that we are able to even move a grass only because of Brahmam. Otherwise, Devas are also powerless. So, glories of a Jiva is also attributed to Brahmam only. Kenopanishad is Pramana. If Agastiyar is able to do, it’s because of Antaryami Brahmam. Not by Agastiyar’s own efforts.

A Jiva is directed by Brahmam even in the state of Moksha. Katopanishad is Pramana.

Comparing a Jiva with Brahmam is considered an act of Bagavad Nindhanai by Vadhiraja Theerthar in his work named Yukti Mallika.

However, in liberated state, I do agree that they are comparable in few aspects but not like to like.

Sribashyam above referred from book authored by Shri Srirangam Sadagopa Muthu Srinivasan. Shenbaga Publishers. Book cost only Rs. 300. You may buy and read for more clarity.

Hare Krishna! Aneha Koti Namaskaram Swami!

The essence of ‘Vishishtadvaita’ is, the lord is neither different nor same with Jiva/Achit. Same philosophy in different flavor, the lord is both same and different from Jiva ‘at the same time’. It is inconceivable hence the philosophy is called ‘acintya’.

Like the example given above in one of the responses, a nail in one of the fingers is not ‘Adiyen’. Neither it is different from Adiyen because it is ‘part’ of Adiyen, though it is such a ‘trivial’ part. Just because it is ‘trivial’, it does not make it different from Adiyen. It also constitutes Adiyen’s body. Speaking of nail, it was used as weapon by Sri Narasimha perumal to kill Hiranyakasibu, thereby it is not ‘that’ trivial as well 🙂

While we can pick so many references from Sri Bashyam to support how Jiva is different from the lord, there can be numerous references from same scripture (and many other scriptures including Bhagavad Gita and Bhagavatam) to support how the lord is same as well. But that does not change the basic understanding of ‘Vishishtadvaitam’ as pronounced by Sripada Ramanujacharya.

Also the discussion depends on, from ‘which’ perspective it is debated. For a fallen soul like Adiyen, yes, the ‘difference’ should be more appreciated so as to ‘cleanse’ the mind and purify. At the same time, if Adiyen thinks the lord from a devotee mood, out of love, Adiyen do not and will not differentiate from the lord and it is a pleasure to think that even fallen soul like Adiyen is ‘part’ of the lord.

On the same line, does perumal care whether ‘Adiseshan’ is different from him Or does ‘Adiseshan’ care he is different from perumal ? So on the same line, liberated souls may not even care about the difference (while we all understand there is difference). The highest stage of devotion is ‘Aatma nivedanam’ where the difference is neither appreciated by perumal nor by liberated soul and that is the highest goal of fallen souls like Adiyen.

Request devotees to correct if there is any misunderstanding. As indicated earlier, Adiyen follows ‘Vishishtadvaitam’ and the corrections can only be accepted in that line of philosophy.

Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Aneka Koti Namaskarams Swamy

Ok. Provide Pramanas from Sribashyam and Bagavad Gita to show that there is no difference between Jiva and Brahmam.

Few things should be directly understood and few things have to be taken in secondary sense to understand Vedanta completely.

Certainly Adiyen will not continue debate as it is of no use. But, Adiyen have Sri Bashyam, Ramanuja Bashyam for Gita and few critical Visishtadvaitam books at home. Let Adiyen understand what Bagavad Ramanujar says based on your Pramanas and keep the understanding with Adiyen myself.

Adiyen is not biased and confined to one Siddhanta though I am a Madhva. That applies to Adiyen’s own Dvaita also. Adiyen always try to see Vedanta as Vedanta because the difference in three Siddhantas arises only due to lack of understanding of Vedanta by people and the real differences are not in Siddhantas because all the three speaks on same Vedanta. So, Adiyen is interested in all three Acharyas.

Further, please note that Veda Vyasar, who propounded Vedanta approved the works of all three Acharyas. This is not possible if those three are contradicting.

Hence, please don’t hesitate to provide Pramanas and let Adiyen learn.

Daasanu Daasan Srinivasan Pranesh

Hare Krishna! Aneha Koti Namaskaram Swami!

Debates are good Swami, provided both of us are seasoned enough to carry over the debate keeping aside the emotions. As we know, there were few bitter experiences in this very own satsang when the discussions were misunderstood.

By the way, Is Swami asking for Pramanas for ‘Vishishtadvaitam’ itself Or for Adiyen’s understanding of ‘Vishishtadvaitam’ ? 🙂 🙂 🙂 Just kidding Swami, please excuse Adiyen’s sense of humor.

In Adiyen’s very humble opinion, Absolute truth is one, God is one. It is Lord Sri Krishna for Adiyen and it is Lord Sriman Narayana for someone and so on and so forth. In Adiyen’s capacity, there is no way that this understanding can be reconciled but Adiyen is cautious enough in not imposing this constraint/limitation on any other devotee. 

Adiyen feels, that it would take ‘much more’ than what one devotee can imagine that ‘it would take’ to reconcile different ways of understanding/experiencing the lord. If Swami feels, Swami is up for such reconciliation, then its a choice and Adiyen respects that choice. 

Adiyen has already shared the Bhagavad Gita verses in the response and one more key verse from Bhagavad Gita below. Will share some more from Srimad Bhagavatam (could not recollect the sloka numbers).

Bg 18.20 — உயிர்வாழிகள் எண்ணற்ற உருவமாக பிரிக்கப்பட்டிருந்தாலும், அவர்களை பிரிக்கப்படாத ஆன்மீக இயற்கையாக, எந்த அறிவின் மூலம் ஒருவன் காண்கின்றானோ, அந்த அறிவு ஸத்வ குணத்தில் இருக்கும் அறிவாகும்.

Bg 18.20 — That knowledge by which one undivided spiritual nature is seen in all living entities, though they are divided into innumerable forms, you should understand to be in the mode of goodness.

Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Hare Krishna! One more:

Bg 10.22 — Of the Vedas I am the Sāma Veda; of the demigods I am Indra, the king of heaven; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living force [consciousness].

Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Swami. Aneka Koti Namaskarams.

Yes. I do agree that debates that are emotional are not healthy.

Thanks for Pramanas from Bagavad Gita. I will surely consider them for research on Brahmam and Jiva as Adiyen have Gita Bashyas from all three Acharyas.

As promised earlier, Adiyen would not continue the debate in this forum and keep the findings with self.

Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Swami

Perhaps Adiyen didn’t convey reconciliation Adiyen meant in understandable manner. There are certainly little differences in Philosophies and vast differences in Sampardayams. But, people sometimes appreciate enemity in Philosophies too. Adiyen’s intention is not to unite three and Adiyen does not have capability to do that.

Adiyen’s intention is only to prove that all Philosophies are right as per Vedanta. To see Vedanta as Vedanta. Sampardayams can never be united and it’s not necessary also. At the top of all, Adiyen is not qualified to do that. For that matter, Adiyen is already struggling for Moksha of self and can’t even think of that.

If I use the word Shankara, Madhvas start boiling like anything. If I use the word Madhvar, Advaitins start reacting. Probably Visishtadvaitins bridge between the two and hence not reacting much. But, as I already said I am a Madhva by birth, even our Vikram Swami stated twice that, “May be you are speaking from Dvaita point of view”. I never used a single quote from Madhvacharya granthas in any thread. These are impressions on Adiyen but Adiyen try to take all three in fact.

One of Adiyen’s Sri Vaishnavite friend in office says, “Only people who come by way of Udayavar will reach Moksha. Others can’t reach.” I respect Bagavad Ramanujar. I know that Bagavan promised that whoever is recommended by Udayavar will get Moksha. But, did Lord really say that people of other Sampardayam will not certainly get it?

To face forthcoming threats to Sanathana Dharma, it is essential that we all should be united. This feel of enemity should be lost. All three Acharyas and their Philosophies should be equally respected. However, Sampardayam of self is always one step higher but criticizing other Sampardayams may not be right.

The only way to build respect to Acharyas of all Sampardayams is to understand that all are sub-philosophies of Vedanta and Vedanta Sutras of Badarayanar is mother of these three and all three are correct in their angles. The feel of one’s Sampardayam as superior to another causes this enemity. If we think that we are all from same source Vedanta, there is a probability that we may be united at least as far as Vedanta is considered. Sampardayam and Lord we choose as Brahmam are all together different and cannot be changed.

Biases of people are so strong that we don’t accept other Acharyas are equally correct. Instead, people get a feel that someone is trying to disprove the Sampardayam followed and often go by biases and unnecessary reactions. We are not owner of Vedanta. What if we consider all three for Analysis, following Philosophy of self always?

When I say Adishankarar states Jiva Brahma bedham in Brahma Sutras, Advaitins don’t accept. They blindly go by the bias that only Brahmam is real and rest all are illusion. But, why do they don’t accept statements of their own Acharya in other angle?

Ok. The same statements were also conveyed to a Madhva and asked, “Shankara is also conveying Dvaita Bhava in his Brahma Sutras. Why do you still refuse to accept it?” He replies, “Shankara does not speak bedha. Dvaita given by Madhvacharya alone is authenticated Dvaita and he started cursing Shankara”.

Is the society healthy? We are all stamped as Advaitins, Visishtadvaitins and Dvaitins and trying to prove that one of these is superior to another based on the responsibility we ourselves assume while not asked by Lord or Acharyas. We all consider that the Philosophy followed by self is supreme to other while others are illogical. But, how far we understood our own Philosophy in the view of Acharya who propounded it is a question. We all keep debating based on our understandings, what we heard or learnt from childhood.

There is a famous proverb. “To fill a cup, first empty the cup”, means we have to come out of biases with open approach.

So, Adiyen’s dream is to give a book that shows all three Philosophies are equally right and it’s certainly not about uniting Sampardayams. To project Vedanta as Vedanta.

As stated already, Adiyen is disqualified to do it as of today. But, if God wishes to fulfill Adiyen’s desire in this, He will guide. It’s left to Him.

Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Hare Krishna! Aneha koti namaskaram Swami!

Mannikkavum Swami, Adiyen was also not clear in articulation earlier so the response might have not conveyed the intended message. Adiyen is software architect by profession so there is inherent inclination towards ‘abstraction’. In the sense, as far Adiyen’s understanding goes, Vishishtadvaitam ‘itself’ connects ‘Advaitam’ and ‘Dvaitam’ and the connection is what Adiyen refers as ‘reconciliation’ in the earlier responses so ‘Vishishtadvaitam’ is an abstraction of ‘Advaitam’ and ‘Dvaitam’ [unless someone corrects this understanding]. Now to create one more abstraction on top of these 3 is something that Adiyen is not able to visualize but if Swami feels there is a possibility, then there is nothing wrong in attempting.

If a pursuit is honest, the lord will definitely help the pursuit. And Swami’s concern over acceptance of different acharyas by respective group of followers is completely understandable. In fact, our Swami in Sanadana dharma discourse, clearly brings out this concern. However, Gaudiya vaishna line of teachers specifically warn that the philosophy will make the heart ‘hard’ and sometimes it becomes a hindrance for Bakti. In Adiyen’s experience this is a valid warning that we should be aware of. And Adiyen passes this message with a ‘genuine’ concern for Swami, that we should not deviate from ‘Bakti’ maargam in the process of pursuing something on philosophical lines.

Having said and discussed all, Adiyen would be more than happy to pass on the references (not just on Vishishtadvaita but on any topic that Swami is interested in, as that is how Adiyen uses it to refresh and revise the slokas) from Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam. 

Sarvam Sri Krishnaarapanamastu!

Hare Krishna! Aneha Koti Namaskaram!

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4 Chapter 7: The Sacrifice Performed by Dakṣa

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.7.19 — Lord Nārāyaṇa was seated on the shoulder of Stotra, or Garuḍa, who had big wings. As soon as the Lord appeared, all directions were illuminated, diminishing the luster of Brahmā and the others present.

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.7.53 — A person with average intelligence does not think the head and other parts of the body to be separate. Similarly, My devotee does not differentiate Viṣṇu, the all-pervading Personality of Godhead, from any thing or any living entity.

 Srimad Bhagavatam 4.7.54 — The Lord (Hari) continued: One who does not consider Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Śiva or the living entities in general to be separate from the Supreme, and who knows Brahman, actually realizes peace; others do not. 

Srimad Bhagavatam canto 7 chapter 7: What Prahlāda Learned in the Womb

Srimad Bhagavatam 7.7.49 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, is the soul and the Supersoul of all living entities. Every living entity is a manifestation of His energy in terms of the living soul and the material body. Therefore the Lord is the most dear, and He is the supreme controller.

Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Sure Swamy. Aneka Koti Namaskarams.

I will certainly come to you for doubts on Gita or Bagavatam.

Regarding margas, I don’t see Bakthi and Gnana as two different margas at all. Gnana leads to Bakthi only. Bakthi ultimately results in surrender.
Gnana and Bakthi both go hand in hand. In fact, at matured stage of knowledge, arises real Bakthi.

Kamya Bakthi converts into Nishkamya Bakthi through Gnana.

Knowledge is Arivu. Anubhavam is Bakthi. Arivu+Anubhavam = Gnanam or Wisdom.

So, there is no use of Arivu without Bakthi. Only when both gets saturated, purpose of life is fulfilled.

Understanding Supremacy of Brahmam is knowledge. Feeling the same through all forms of God including Archa Vigraham is Bakthi. Wisdom is combined effect.

All three Acharyas supports Bakthi. There is no doubt that Ramanujar and Madhvar suggests Bakthi Marga.

Shankarar also supports this by his granthas like Bhaja Govindam.

“Bhaja Govindam Bhaja Govindam Govindam Bhaja Moodamathe. Sanprapte Sannihite kaale nahi nahi rakshati dukurankarane”.

He says, “Oh fools. Pray Govinda. At the time of death only He can save us and not these grammar or vyakarana patas”.

Further he says, “If one does not do archana to Govinda at least once in life, it is impossible for him to attain Moksha”.

In Aparoksha Anubhuti, Shankarar says, “Sadhana Chatushtayam (Viveka, Viraga, Sadga Sambathi which includes samam, tamam, uparadhi, tidisha, Shraddhai, samadhanam and 4th is Mumukshutvam) are achievable only by being devoted to Lord Murari (Krishna) and by pleasing Him.

So, Bakthi to Lord Hari has a very strong base in all three Philosophies. That’s why Adiyen said, how far one understands his own Philosophy of choice is a question.

Adiyen’s future attempt can be considered as removal of mis-interpretations by people from three Philosophies as Philosophies propounded by Purvacharyas are already clear. This should be from a neutral unbiased eye on all the three.

However, there is no doubt that Adiyen will never deviate from Bakthi Marga.

Thank you for encouragement and advice.

Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

If adiyen’s response hurts any sentiment then please consider it as

“brahma satyam jagan mithya”

As per advaitham all my responses are false so don’t take it to ?

?????

Dasanudasan

Namaskarams Swamy,

Advaitam muzhusa padikkama adha thappunnu eppadi solrir. Shankara Grantham ellam padichirukkeera? Idhai than thannudayathu osthi mathavai pizhai endru makkal karudhuvadhaga sonnen.

Mithyaikum mayaikum periya verupadu irukku.

I read all your posts. It is not that Adiyen cannot answer. Inga Vendam. Neenga onnu sonna adha vachi 100 ah valathu vidra type. Idhu mudive illama poindirukkum.

Ungalukku ishtam Irundhal unga WhatsApp number kudungo. Adiyen sila kelvigal ketkiren. Ungalala mudincha Pramana reethiya bathil sollungo. Appo naan pudicha muyalukku moonu kaal yaar ninaipathunu theriyum.

Velukkudi Swami ivana yen groupla anumathichomnu ninaichidakoodathu. Neenga sonna Ella pramanathukkum bathil irukku. Open mind irundha offlinela discuss panna vango. Adiyen Garvathil sollalai. Anna neenga thayara iruntha intha vishayathirku oru mudivu kattuvom.

Inga Niruthipom.

Aham Brahmasmi pondra mahavakyangalai eppadi purindhukolvathungarathukku than Brahma Sutra pramanam koduthen. Moonru acharyargalum kitta thatta ore madhiridhan pesara.

Acharya nindhanaila dhayavu seithu iranga vendam. Moondru acharyargalum mariyathaikku uriyavargale.

Veda Vyasar Adishankararukku Pratyakshamagi, 3 days avarodha avar kodutha Brahma Sutrathai vaadhittu, adhil tripthi adainthu, Shankararudaiya ayulai neetithu varamalithar.

Adhanala avlo easyah endhu correctu mathathu sariyillanu solla vendam. Adhu Acharya nindhanaila. Namma acharyarukku panna mattum illai.

Bagavad Ramanujaro Madhvaro kooda, avargal kalathil Vedantathai makkal purinthu kondathai kandithargale thavira, Shankararai vimarsanam seiyavillai.

Swamy

Tensionla dhayavu seidhu varthaigalai kottadhel. Konjam porumaya kelungo. Victory is not Adiyen’s Moto. So, please don’t take it as competition. Unmaya sollanumna, Adiyenukku pesave bhayama irukku.

Mayanu Shankarar solvadhu Sriman Narayananin Maya Sakthi. Its a power that He possess. This is not illusion as everyone understands. Poi endru artham illai. Appadi Advaithigal sonnalum adhu thavaru. Sristi is running through His power of Maya. Adhai “illadhadhunu” porul purinchinda adhu Shankarar thavara?

Secondly, Mithyai is not equated to Maya. Mithyaina Anithyam. Indru irukku naalai maarum. Kanamal pogathu. Neengal ninaipathu pola “false” “poi” endru artham illai. Brahmam marudhalukku utpadadhadal Satyam endru solgirar. Prakriti marudhalukku utpattadhu dhane?

Sari. Prakritiye oru kattathil illamal poi viduma endral illai. Indha Sristi Moolaprakritiyaga irukkum.

If pot breaks, pot is subject to change. But, mud is always there.

Gita Bashyathil, Shankarar, Avyakthathil irunthu andam thondriyathu. Parabrahmam ana Sriman Narayanan than Maya sakthiyin moolam andathai katti aalgirar endru solgirar.

Mayai Mithyai ellathukkum illadhadhu, poi endru artham purinjinda adhu unga thappu. Sankarar thappu illa. Idhai vaithu naan Maya mithyavukku pudhu illatha artham soldrennu ninaichal ninachikongo. Aduvum Adiyen kutram illai.

Adukuthan sonnen, Ramanujarum Madhvarum avargal kalathu Vedantathai vaadittargale thavira Shankararai ondrum sollavillai. Advaitam sariyathan irukku. Naam purinjindathulla bedham irukku.

Mudhalil Advaitatirku Shankarar vaitha Peyar Advaitame Kidaiyadhu. Avar vaitha Peyar Brahma Vivarta Vadam. Dvaitatirku Madhvar vacha Peyar Dvaitame kidayathu. Tattva Vadham.

Ippadi nammale namakku vendiya peyargalai vachindu, nammoda purithal ellathaiyum acharyagal thalaila pottundirukkom. Ungalaiyum ennaiyum sollalai. Kaalam kaalama appadithan irukku.

Yosichiparungo. Shankararo Madhvaro Ramanujaro oruvarukku oruvar vadhidallai. Avargal Avathara purushargal. Thavaru izhaikka mattargal. Ramanujar vadthittadhu Yadhava Prakasar edhai Advaitamnu sonnaro adhai. Shankara Advaithathaiya? Madhvar vadhittadhu avar kaalathu Advaitathai. Shankararoda illai.

Naam thavara purinjindathai ellam oru Acharyar perla sonnal, adhu Acharyarai Ava mariyathai seivathudhane. Adhaiye sonnen. Thirikkavillai.

Ungalai kadinthu kollavillai. Jayikka vendum endrum ninaikkavillai. Ungalukku Tripthi illai endral thaniyaga pesi mudippom endruthan sonnen. Inge vendamnuthan sonnen. Jayikkanumno pandithythai kamikkanumno ninaithal ingeye pesiyirukkalam. En thaniya pesalamnu sollanum? Anga jeyichalum yaarukku theriya pogudhu? Adhanala Adiyen ennathai mudhalla dhyavu seidhu purinjikkongo.

Neengal kettergale. Jivan susupthi nilayil iraivanidam odungugiran. Devarir, “mix” endra varthaiyai payan paduthineergal. Jivanum Brahmamum mix agadhu. Odunguvathu veru ondravathu veru. Union is different from becoming one. If they mix, then there is no second entity called Jiva. Idhu first modern scholars purinjinda Advaitam. Sari.

Iraivan Gnana Swaroopan. Anal Jivano susupthiyil ariyamaiyil irukkiran. Avan iraivanidathil odungugiran. But, not mixing. Jivanukku Gnanam illai endru solla mudiyathu. Enendral susupthiyil naan ariyamaiyil irundhen ennum Gnanam Jivanukku undu.

But, though a Jiva has knowledge of non-knowledge in susubdhi it is not complete knowledge because we don’t know what happened in deep sleep. Oru velai iraivanai anubhavithom endru sonnal, antha Anubhavam minja vendum. But, we don’t feel anything in deep sleep. But, Brahmam is completely conscious every second.

Iraivan Gnana Swaroopan. Always conscious. If suppose we were mixed with Brahmam in deep sleep, then we should also have been conscious but we don’t gain any experience in deep sleep except the experience that I experienced nothing.

So, Jiva resides in Brahmam during deep sleep state but does not mix with Brahmam.

Oru veetil kudi irukkirom. Adhil thangugirom. Naan veetil vazhnthen endru solvoma naan vettoda mix ayitten nu solvoma?

Innum pesa niraya irukku Swamy. Neenga nijama therinjikkanumna kovathai vidungal. Porumaiya yosiyungal. Adhukkuthan number ketten. Ungala Jeyichi en pandithyatha nirubikka illa.

Tharamattennu sollittel. Paravayillai. Adiyenukku kavalai illai.

Acharyarai thittinathan ninthanainu illa. Shankarar advaitama naan purinjindathai kottinalum adhu ninthanaiye. Kobikkamal emotion agamal yosingo.

Interest irundha moonum padingo. Interest illana Srivaishnavathai mattum padingo ana mathadhai korachi edai podatheengo.

Unga kovathukku karanamana adiyenai manningo. Victory is not important for Adiyen. Neenga jeyichadhave irukkattum. Anal ukkarndhu porumaiya yosingo.

Mudinthal Shri Velukkudi Swamyya parthu kettu therinjikkongo.

Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanamastu!