Is Lord Siva a position

Updated on June 29, 2018 in General
34 on February 27, 2018

Namaskaram,

Please let us know if Siva is a post like Indra.

Namaskaram

 

 

 

 
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0 on February 27, 2018

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Yes it is adiyen
Dasanudasan

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0 on February 27, 2018

NArAyanA sukhtham

sa brahma sa śivaḥ sendraḥ so’kṣaraḥ paramaḥ svarāṭ

Meaning: The Supreme Self is established in the middle of the flame. He is Brahma, Shiva, Indra, the liberated Self, the most celebrated Master of Karma.

SrI rAmAnuja points out in the vedArtha sangraha that this mantra shows the following:
That all entities are pervaded, controlled and supported by nArAyaNa alone, are subservient to him and have him as their inner self.

This mantra ascribes the status of vibhUtis to gods like Brahma, Shiva and Indra as well as the liberated self and others.

Not only does this mantra declare the above two tattvas, but it also places Brahma and Shiva (who are vastly superior to other gods) in the same line with minor deities like Indra, thus treating them as equals! The implication being, the difference in the prowess of these beings is miniscule in comparison with the Supreme Brahman, for whom these entities are vibhUtis or “property under his control”

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2 on February 27, 2018

In srimad rAmAyaNa, this is summed up succinctly by srI hanuman as follows:
brahmaa vaa svayambhuuH chaturaananaH rudraa vaa triNetraH tripuraantakaHmahendraH vaa indraH suranaayakah na shaktaaH traatum raamavadhyamyudhi (~sundara khAnda – 51.45)

Meaning: Brahma the self-existing god with four faces or Rudra with three eyes and the destroyer of Tripura or Mahendra the god of atmosphere and sky as also the lord of celestials would not be able to protect the one to be killed by Rama in battle.”
Note that the anvaya is Brahma, Rudra and Indra in the same manner as the nArAyaNa sUkta which declares sa brahma: sa shiva: sEndra. In addition, Hanuman describes these deities with their relative glories – Brahma with his four faces which chant the four Vedas signifying his great ascetic might – Rudra who has the third eye and who destroyed Tripura – Indra who is the great lord of devas – The idea is that even with all these glories, they cannot defeat Rama singly or combined, and in fact, all these devas together with their glories are vibhUtIs of srI rAghava

Source:
https://narayanastra.blogspot.in/p/blog-page_24.html?m=1

on March 2, 2018

Thanks for the information.  So, it means Siva is a post like Indra, hope I am right.

Namaskaram

on March 7, 2018

Yes ofcourse adiyen no doubt about it.
Dasanudasan

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1 on March 2, 2018

Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,

Asmadh Sarva Gurubyo Namaha,

 

 

Dear Narayana Bhakta,

 

Yes, Shiva is a Position in each Andam.

Perumal Choses a “JeevAthma” that has an exemplary Punya karma for that position who has done specific Upasanas for countless Janmas following Shastras by exhibiting the DESIRE to be in that position.

 

One Andam comprises of 14 lokas.

  • Bhoolokam (with many Dwipams) in center, 7 lokas above it and 6 lokas below it, together is one Andam.
  • For each Andam, positions like Braham, Shiva are fixed, and Perumal Choses different JeevAthmas for each position that has exemplary Punya Karmas.

 

Like that, there are Anantha Kodi (Countless) Andams, each having one Brahma Position, Shiva Position etc…. Also, the powers that Perumal grants to these JeevAThmas Brahma, Shiva between each Andam also varies. Like, Brahma of one Andam may be weaker or stronger than Brahma of another Andam.

 

****************************

During Maha Pralayam, each Lokas/Position are COMPLETLY dissolved by Perumal, and the JeevAThma that took each position Brahma, Shiva etc will LAYAM on PErumal’s Thirumeni, like all of us in the past, except those Jeevathmas that has reached SriVaikuntam.

 

After each Maha Pralayam, Sriman Narayanan starts Creation, then,

“Narayanan padaitthaan NaanMughanai (Brahma), NaanMughanukku Yeraar Shivan (Brahma’s son) Piranthaan Yendrum Sol”

“நாராயணன் படைத்தான் நான்முகனை (Brahma), நான்முகனுக்கு என்றார் சிவன் (Brahma’s Son) பிறந்தான் என்றும் சொல்”

[This is the “Naan Mughan Thiruvandhaadhi Divya Prabhandham Thaniyan” which is originally taken from Srimad Bhagavatham, how Perumal starts Shristi and choses a JeevAthma for Brahma post and then that Brahma choses another JeevAthma for Shiva post and creation continues).

 

 

******************

That is the reason, A Sharanagathan on Acharyan ThiruvAdi DOESN’T FOCUS ON UPASANAS, AS IT WILL LEAD TO ACCUMULATING PUNYA KARMAS AND END UP IN DESIRE OF MATERIALISTIC POSITIONS either within Bhoomi or other Loka positions.

A Sharanagathan is “SUPPOSE TO SURRENDER THE PHALAM OF PUNYA KARMAS” to lotus feet of Sriman Narayanan (Do the Good Deeds but surrender the results as “Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu) and NOT to carry the Punya karmas with us, and avoids any Paapams by involving in Kainkaryams/SHravanam etc… So, Punya and Paapa karmas becomes Zero at some point with Thayar-Perumal Kataksham and Acharya Ramanuja NirHedhukai Krupai in same birth, there is definite way of getting out of this birth-death cycle and WE (all Jeevathmas) Property of Thayar-Perumal reach SriVaikuntam for Nithya Kainkaryam (Permanent Aanandham for Thayar-Perumal).

 

“Vishnu Loka ManiMandapa Maarga Dhaayee, Ramanujo Vijayathaey Yathiraja Rajaha”

 

********************

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,

Thayar-Perumal-Alwar-EmperumanaAr-Jeeyar-Acharyar ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam,

Sarvam Sri Krishna Kudumbham.

on March 2, 2018

Namaskaram,

Thank you for the clarification.  Reg the structure of the universe, I can understand the dveepam and how its situated in the universe.  Considering the dveepam is horizontal (flat) now could not understand where our Bharatam (India) is situated.  Is not our bhuloka an elliptical or circle in shape.  How to understand the location of various continents of our place (earth) if its flat.

Please explain 

Namaskaram

 

 

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2 on March 2, 2018

Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,

Asmadh Sarva Gurubyo Namaha,

 

Dear Bhakta,

 

Thanks for the understanding about the position of other JeevAThmas (Demi-Gods) and How Sriman Narayanan THE SUPREME distributes HIS POWERS to other JeevAthmas (Demi-Gods) during the Shristi in Leela Viboothi, based on what we understood from Swami’s Pravachanams.

 

Regarding Bhoolokam & its Dweepams

Adiyen will share what adiyen understood from Swami’s Pravachanams on Srimadh BhagavAtham. Swami also mentioned in one of the Enpani in the past regarding the Bhoolokam and the Dweepams inside the Bhoolokam.

Please pardon adiyen for any errors.

 

As we know, ONE Andam comprises of 14 lokas. LIke that there are countless Andams in leela Vibhoothi.

1) Bhoolokam with many Dweepamns in CENTER,

2) Bhuhu, Bhuvaha etc… total of 7 lokas ABOVE. Indra lokam is either Bhuhu or Bhuvaha, not sure exactly which one.

3) Athala, Vithala, Paathala etc…. total of 6 lokas BELOW.

 

We will dsicuss about Bhoolokam a.k.a BhooMandalam:

* Bhoolokam or BhooMandalam is NOT JUST BHOOMI (EARTH) that comprises of present India, America, Japan etc…. Bhoomi ‘Earth’ is ONE AMONG the Bhoolokam(BhooMandalam).

* Bhoolokam is like a “Single Planar dimension” or ‘Circular Disc’. LIke in Mechanical Engineering studies, there is class called ‘Machine Drawing’. In the class, they teach us about X-axis, Y-axis, Z-axis. X & Y axis is on same Horrizontal PLANE but 90 degress to each other and called as XY PLANE. The Z-axis is Vertical (90degrees) to the XY Plane.

* So, Bhoolokam is XY Single plane with Bhoomi (Earth) Plus many Dweepams.

* Positive Z axis, +Z-axis is 90deg Upward to Bhoolokam XY plane, which is the 7 lokas above, and each of the lokas above are also in its own XY plane, say X1Y1 Plane which is parallel to the XY plane of the Bhoolokam XY plane, and so on.

* Negetive Z-axis, -Z-axis is 90deg downward to Bhoolokam XY plane, which is the 6 lokas below, and each of the lokas below are also in its own XY plane, say X2Y2 single plane.

* All these 14 lokas together makes One Andam like a Round Egg Shell.

***********************************************

Bhoolokam in a Single Plane XY, located at Center of the ANdam:

1) Jambhu Dweepam. This is 1-lakh Yojani wide. 1 Yojanai = 10 miles,

Means Jambhu Dweepam = 1 lakh Yojani = 10 lakh miles = 10,00,000 miles wide, means a circular diameter of 10,00,000 miles (16,09,344 km)

2) Then there are 6 more Dweepams forming as circular ring outside the Jambhu Dweepam, with each of the 6 dweepams being CONCENTRIC to the Jambhu Dweepam.

Means , if we draw a circular ring with 10,00,000 miles diameter (Jambhu Dweepam), then the center of this circle is same for bigger diamter circles (other 6 dweepams as well). LIke how we do “Arisi Maavu KOlam” infornt of our house. It has same center point, but we make circles with bigger diameters.

************************************************

So Each Andam itself is Infinitely big, which has Bholoka, Sathya lokam (Brahma lokam), SHiva lokam, Indra lokam etc…. and like that there are “COuntless Andams’, each havinga Brahma postion, Shiva position, Indra position etc…. and PErumal choses a JeevAThma to be in that Post/Position.

  1. a) All these Countless Andams Together are called as “LEELA VIBHOOTHI” or called as SAMSARAM which is a PHYSICAL PLACE. This Samsaram is the one which is subject to Creation, Protection and Destruction by PErumal., as HE is the ONE & ONLY Master. This Samsaram is Dangerous place where we live, since it has “Rajas, Tamas, Karmas & Bounded by TIME”.
  2. b) This LEELA VIBHOOTHI” itself is only 1/4th of Perumal’s TOTAL VIBHOOTHI Physical Place.
  3. c) THe remAining 3/4th is called as the THRIPATH VIBHOOTHI (because 3 times bigger than Leela Vibhoothi)”, or, “NITHYA VIBHOOTHI” , or ‘SriVaikuntam” or “ParamaPAdham” or “Peru Veedu” or “NALAM ANTHAM ILAHTHOOR NAADU நலம் அந்தம் இல்லதோர் நாடு (No deficiency in Happiness)”, or MOksham for simplicity, whcih is Physical place. Some sampradhaysm says wrong by saying Moksham as a state of mind which is totally incorrect as per Shastras. Moksham is a physical place. THis Nithya Vibhoothi has many lokas like Sri Rama lokam, Sri Krishna lokam, Sri NaraSimha lokam, Sri Varaha lokam etc…..for all Bhaktas to Serve HIM LIVE.
  4. d) The Leela Vibhoothi & Nithya Vibhoothi is Seperated by Virajai River.

Rajai means place full of Rajas gunas which is the Leela Vibhoothi Samsaram.

WHen sanskrit word “Vi” is prefixed to any word, it gives the opposite meaning.

So ViRajai means “NO Rajas”. Hence, when we get Moksham through ACHARYA RAMANUJA KRUPA KATAKSHAM, all the Rajas, Tamas, Karmas are destroyed in ViRajai river and we get a NEW body called “Aprakritha Shareeram (Non deteriorating body) with full of Suddha Satvam”.

That “SriVaiuntam” also has Pancha Bhootoma but that Pancha Bhootam is not subject to creation or destruction, since that pancha Bhoothma is made of Suddha Satva Mayam with no Rajas and Tamas and NOT TIME bound, since anything beyond Virajai River is SUddha Satvam.

*************************************

Also, same way “KUNTA” means Kurai ulladhu (With Deficiency). So, Leela Vibhooti/ Samsaram is called as “KUNTA” or KUNTAM”.

When Sanskrit word ‘Vi’ is added to Kunta, it gives opposite meaning, ViKunta or VaiKuntam means “NO deficieny”. ‘Sri’ is added because of THiruMagal Thayar presence in VaiKUnta with Perumal. Without Thayar, there is NO WAY, we receive PErumal’s karunai. We all JeevAThmas after reaching SriVaikuntam with Acharya Ramanuja Krupai, we all will do Nithya Kainkaryam to DIVYA DAMPADHIS along with the Nithya sooris in SriVaikuntam. It’s all about continuing the Acharya sambhandham and BHagavata sambhandham and Sri Velukudi Krishnan Swami Sambhandham in ‘SriVaikuntam’ as well.

***************************************

 

In CRUX,

Leela Vibhoothi/Samsaram (Physical place, presently we live here):

  1. a) Rajas, Tamas, Satvam,
  2. b) Karmas,
  3. c) Time bound, hence sleep, old age, tired, disease etc..
  4. d) Prakritha Shareeram (Deteriorating body)
  5. e) Dark place, like Light ‘SUn’ is situated in darkness
  6. f) Also called as “Kunta”, or Kuntam means Kurai Ulladhu (With Deficiency)
  7. g) 1/4th of total size.

Nithya Vibhoothi/SriVaikuntam (Future residing place after this birth):

  1. a) No Rajas, No Tamas, ONLY SUDDHA Satvam,
  2. b) NO Karmas,
  3. c) NO Time at all, hence no sleep, no old age, no tiredness, no disease etc…
  4. d) Aprakritha Shareeram (Non-Deteriorating body)
  5. e) Bright place, like BhagavAn himself is Illuminating Light.
  6. f) Also called as “ViKunta”, or VaiKuntam means Kurai Illadhadhu (NO Deficiency)
  7. g) 3/4th of total size.

******************************************

Hope this Helps,

 

Sri Velukuddi Krishna Swami adiyenai Shamikka Prarthikkiraen if any mistakes in explanation of dweepams or any other things from Devareer’s pravachanams.

 

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

on March 2, 2018

Namaskaram, Thanks for the explanation.  I understood Dveepam very much and can Imagine, but could not understand where our earth is located if the jambudveepam dveepam is flat.

Hope my question is clear.

Namaskaram

 

on March 2, 2018

Sorry I said that “hope my question is clear” while trying to explain my doubt.   Dandavat pranam.  Just could not imagine our (earth) location if dveepam is flat.  

Namaskaram

 

 

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2 on March 3, 2018

Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,

Asmadh Sarva Gurubhyo Namaha,

 

Dear Bhakta,

 

Keeping Sukachariar ThiruvAdi and all PoorvAcharyas ThiruvAdi on adiyens head, adiyen will try to explain from Swami’s Pravachanams and from SriVaishana Granthams on Srimadh BhagavAtham.

 

********************

Adiyen believe, “Flat” is not a correct usage.

Srimad Bhagavatam says, the BhooMandalam (Bhoolokam) “Center Plane of the Andam” is described as “Lotus flower with UNIFORM CIRCULAR petals” comprising of 7 dweepams.

    • Jambhu Dweepam is the center of the Lotus and is “Uniformly Circular pattern” (Vattam , not Flat), and the surrounding Circular petals are remaining 6 dweepams concentrically.
    • Within the Jambhu Dweepam, there are 9 Varshe (Kantams or Continents, ‘NOT’ the continents that we talk about within Earth).
    • Each Varshe/Kantam/continent is 9000 Yojanas (90,000 miles approx.) wide in diameter.
    • There is a varhse/Kantam called as “Ilavrita varshe” is CENTER of Jambhu Dweepa and the remaining 8 varshes of the 9 varshe are in circular pattern around the center Ilavrita varshe/kante.
    • Three Varhes/Kantes are on North side of of Ilavirtha varshe/Kante & 3 on south side, one of west side & one on east side. Our Bharata Varshe is on South side, one among the 3 of the varshes on south side.
    • There are 8 separate KulaParvathams (mountains) in circular pattern which draws the border between each of the 8 Varshes to the main Center Ilavrita Varshe/kante. “Himalayam mountain” is the one which makes the border between Ilavritha Varshe & Bharata Varshe (where Earth is there), not the Himalaya in this Earth, since each Mounatin is 2000 yojanas (20,000 miles) wide.
    • The border line between the 8 varshes itself is made by Lavana Saagaram which itself is 2000 Yojanas (20,000 miles) wide.
    • Each Mountain itself is 2000 Yojanas (20,000 miles) wide in diameter.
    • Out of all the 8 KulaParvathams, “The Meru Mountain” is the Head/Chief Mountain which is at the CENTER of the “Ilavrita Varhse/kantam.
  • So, MERU MOUNTAIN is the Center of the Ilavrita Varshe/Kantam, which inturn is center of Jambhu Dweepa. So MERU Mountain is the Center of Jambhu Dweepa.Center of the Lotus (Pericarp of Lotus, (கர்ணிகை of Thaamarai) and the remaining 8 Varshes/Kantams are in CIRCULAR PATTERN AROUND THE CENTER pericarp OF lotus.

 

  • Out of all the 8 KulaParvathams, “The Meru Mountain” is the Head/Chief Mountain which is at the CENTER of the “Ilavrita Varhse/kante.

****************************

  • Earth/Bhoomi is one entity in Bharata Varshe/kantam.
  •  
  • Earth position in Bharata Varshe/kantam is defined based on this Meru Mountain in Ilavrita varshe/Kantam. 
  •  
  • Meru mountain Height itself is 1lakh Yojanas (10,00,000 miles) , same as the diameter of Jambhu Dweepam.
  •  
  • Meru mountain base/foot is 16,000 yojanas (1,60,000 miles) below Earth, which means the peak of Meru mountain is 84,000 (8,40,000 miles) above Earth.
  •  
  • Meru Mountain Top side Summit itself is 32,000 Yojanas (3,20,000 miles) wide in diameter.
  •  
  • Meru mountain bottom side Foot is 16,000 Yojanas (1,60,000 miles) wide in diameter. 
  •  
  • So, DON’T CONFUSE MERU MOUNATIN IS SOMETHING THAT IS WITHIN EARTH, since each Varshe/Kantam itself is 9000 yojanas (90,000 miles) apart, and Meru is in different Varshe/kantam, and Earth is in different varshe/kantam, and Meru is bigger than what we could imagine. Earth in Bharata Varshe/kantam is miniscule size compared to Meru mountain in Ilavritha Varshe/Kantam.
  • Next is looking at this Jambhu Dweepam (Center of Lotus) from Top view. We see many circular rings. South side of the ring is Bharata varshe/Kante.
  • So, when we say in sankalpam “Mero Dakshine Parsve”, means anyone in Earth is always south of Meru Mountain in Horrizontal plane looking from top View of the Lotus, since all 8 Varshe/Kantams are in Circular pattern about the main Ilavritha Varshe/Kante. and also South of “TOP PEAK SUMMIT POINT”,  So ANYWHERE inside Earth, we all should say “JAMBHU DWEEPE, BHARATA KANTE” no matter in India or Japan or America, since Earth is in Jambhu Dweepa, and Bharata Varshe/Kantam. Because, Earth is still 16,000 yojanas above MEru mountain Bottom base. So during sankalpam, we are not literally talking about “Mero Dakshine Parsve” SOUTH of the WHOLE MERU mountain. We are talking about SOUTH of the MERU TOP PEAK SUMMIT POINT in reference to its South position in Ilavrita Varshe/Kante that is 9000 Yojanas wide, means away from us as well.
  •  
  • Earth/Bhoomi is in a different Varshe/Kantam called the “Bharatha Varshe/kantam   which is one among the 9 Varshes/kantam of Jambhu Dweepam.
  •  

*********************

Overall, Meru Mountain is center of Ilavrita Varshe/Kante and this kante is 9000 yojanas wide, measn 4500 Yojanas in radius, plus HImalayam Kuala parvatham 2000 Yojana.

 

SO, we are looking at a minimum of 6500 Yojanas from center of Jambhu Dweepam to the start point of Bharate Varshe. If Earth is at farther point on Bharata Varshe, then we need to add another 9000 yojanas for Bharata Varshe. So, we are looking at 15,500 yojanas.

**************************

 

  1. Hence, Earth in Horizontal direction is between 6500~15,500 Yojanas (65,000~15,50,000 miles) away from center point of Jambhu Dweepam towards south side (basically in South East direction).
  2. Earth in Vertical direction is 16,000 Yojanas (1,60,000 miles) above the Meru Mountain bottom Foot end.

 

This is what adiyen understood and calculated from Swami’s Pravachanams and reading from SriVaishana Granthams.

*****************************

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami to bless adiyen for adiyens any misunderstanding/errors.

 

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi

Bhooma Devi Thayar Samedha Sri Varaha PErumal ki Jai,

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu

on March 6, 2018

Dear Bhaktas,

Ramnaujaye namaha,

Namaskaram to all. We discussed this topic in detail in a previous thread without final conclusive conclusion.

Yes as per the evidence quoted above, Brahma is a chosen jiva and through Brahma, Lord Shiva appears in this material world.(Like Perumaal appearing through different sources in different incarnations)

But in spiritual world he exists eternally as Sadashiva, (i.e why some vaishnavas are names as Sadashiva)

I would consider him like nitya Suris whose positions are not changed by different jivatmas (like Maha lakshmi, Gardualwar etc) .

In thiruvanatapuram, Swami explained that the first door(dwaram) is for nitya Suris, which is where we find Lord showering a flower to Shiva lingam. 

Lord Shiva’s expansions Rudras may be jivatmas, i am not sure, but Lord Shiva is always the same person.  

I have referenced to scriptural slokas earlier int he other thread.

I am not sure of the intent of the question.

Anyways, it is a good practice not to evaluate the position of parama bhaktas (pure devotees) , we are tiny and insignificant, best is to offer pranams , with knowledge that they are pure devotees.It is the safest position, We are not going to gain anything if we know if it is the same person or a post , but it is very sure that we have to offer our respects to Lord Shiva and he has the capability to give us Bhakti or clear obstacles int he path of Bhakti towards Perumaal  if we desire so.

Nandri

Sivanand

 

 

 

on March 7, 2018

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Adiyen stopped going to shiva temples and ambal temples after SharanAgathi or BaranyAsam. There will be a time when one does complete surrender and PeumAl himself will bring us out of dualistic mindset.

Until then there will be such debates and it’s again his Leelai “janma sthEma bhangAdhi leeley”

Dasanudasan

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2 on March 9, 2018

Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swmai Guruve Namaha,

Asmadh Sarva Gurubhyo Namaha,

 

Perfectly said Vikram BhagavAta based on Swami Vedanta Desikan ‘Rahasya Trayam’ grantham & Swami Pillai LokAcharyar “Mumukkshupadi” grantham, based on Swami Ramanujar teachings from Swami’s Pravachanams regarding “Sharanagathy Post Rules”, that BhagavAN SriKrishna is expecting all JeevAthmas to follow.

 

Adiyen , will repost the same discussion again here based on Swami’s Pravachanams for those who are interested.

 

SHARNAGATHY Post Rules,

As per SriKrishna Charam Slokam in BhagavAT Gita based on PoorvAcharyas Pravachanams via Swami.

“Sarvan Dharman………..Maam Eekam Sharan Vraja……….Mokshayisami Maa SUchaha”.

SriKrishna didnot say “Maam Saharam Vraja”. BhagavAn added the word “Eekam”,

“Maam Eekam Saharam Vraja”, means Yennai Mattumaey Sharanam yendru Pattruvaai aaga (No Devatras and no one else).

 

As Swami says, SriKrishna has said to keep all three Manam (Mind), Mozhi (Speech) and Mei (Actions) ON TO ME ONLY.

 

So, after Sharanagathy, if we go behind Devantra Poojas, it is DISRESPCTING our HUSBAND SriKRishna, that HE is not CAPABLE of giving us Bhakthi, so I’m going behind others to help me. So, Yen Kanavar SriKrishnar Yennai Kaapar yengira Nambhikkai Vendum. This is called Maha Vishwasam.

Like going to Devantras, is asking for RS 10,000 (Temperory happiness and Bhakthi), but going to SriKrishna is getting a Blank Cheque which includes Rs 10,000 or more Bhakthi. The Blank cheque is Moksham ‘SriVaikuntam (Permanet happiness). So, Moksham nammakku kudukkiravar, RS 10,000 or more, namakku kudukka maattaraa?.

**********************************

 

So the five Post Criteria for this Sharanagathy Margam needs to be followed by anyone if we are ParamAthma SriKrishna Bhaktas and need Moksham in SAME birth as per Swami Vedanta Desikan & Swami PIllai LokAcharyar. These 5 are are breakdown explantion of SriKrishna Charama Slokam by PoorvAcharyas.

 

1) Anukoolyasya Sankalpam –> Do only what SriKrishna Likes.

* Be good person, Satvik,

* Eat MY Ucchistam as Prasadham.

* Unmai paesanum (Talk Turth)

*…………

2) Prathikoolyasya Varjanam –> Don’t do anything that SriKrishna DON’t Like).

* No Praani Himsai (NO eating non-veg, NO Goat, or aninals Bali should be done).

*……….

3) MahaVishwasam

BhagavAn Sriman Narayanan meedhu Aparaamaana Nambikkai. Yedhu nadandhaalum BhagvaAn nammalai kaapathuvaar yendru nambikkai.

4) AKinchanyAm or AnanyarGatvam.

Not even take a single effort (Muyarchi like Karma-Gyana-BHakti Yoga Margam) to reach Moksham. Believe in BhagavAn THIRUVADI (Sharanagathy Margam). Avaraey namma kaapathuvaar because we are BhagavAn sotthu.

5) AnanyaGathitvAm.

Don’t have a place to go except BhagavAn ThiruvAdi. All places like Demi-God worship (Brahma, Shiva etc..) Will not yield Mokshsm, since they themselves need to go to Moksham at some point from this Samsaram after getting rid of their Brahma Post or Shiva Post etc…. So Perumal-Thayar ThiruvAdiyai Thavira vera GADHI yenakku illai, adhu naalaey AnanyaGathitvAm].

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Only Interested person who wants to reach Mosham in same Birth, through the way that SriKrishna has showed us (the above 5 steps) will reach Moksham.

Let’s try these with Acharya Krupai and Swami’s Anugraham, if we don’t need another Janma. One small step by us is enough for BHagavAN to take countless step to HELP us. So, DOn’t worry.

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Sri Velukkudi Swami has said, SriKrishna BhagavAn is full of KARUNAI ullam “NirHedhukai Krupai (Causeless Mercy).

SriKrishna will not let any Bhakta down. Once, Bhakta understands that, Bhakta is SriKrishna’s Property (Wife). Then, how come Husband will let His wife struggle/suffer and wander with other Demi-Gods. We are not talking about ordinary Husbands here. We are talking about SriKrishna The ONE-and-ONLY PURUSHOTHAMAN (Husband for all JeevAThmas “Chit” Humans like us or Devathas).

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Paartha Saarathy Perumal is SriKrishna (Chariot Driver), and HIS AVataram is Swami Ramanujar as Swami says in GuruParamparai Upanyasam.

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Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami THiruvadigalaey Sharanam,

Thayar-Perumal-Alwar-EmperumanaAr Thiruvadigalaey Sharanam,

Sri Rukmini Thayar Samedha SriKrishna ki Jai.

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu,

Sarvam SriKrishna Kudumbham.

on March 10, 2018

Koti Namaskaram for explaining in detail! Trying to understand the lotus petal shape by God’s grace.

Namaskaram

 

on March 11, 2018

Namaskaram.

Srimate ramnujaya namaha..

Whatever Kongilpirati Bhakta has referenced from Acharyas and scriptures are true and valid. It is a good summary of what to do and what not to do after Sharangathi.

What I have been trying to clarify is.. once when one has reached the highest state of Sharangathi.(no worship of anybody including devatas, earthly celebrities, office superiors (the second half is more tougher than the earlier ones etc) .one will worship only Perumaal’s Lotus feet.

But that does not mean that one will not pay respect to Superiors..One need not exclusively go and worship other devatas if they have done actual Sharanagthi.. but i think all acharayas would recommend paying respects or obeisances to other devatas if they happen to come across on their way.  Humility is the most fundamental teaching all acharayas have taught. Paying respect to others does not mean being disloyal/unchaste to Supreme Lord. Worshiping others as equal to Supreme Lord is disloyalty/unchaste.

Apart from that the main point I was trying to expand was Lord Shiva is not a position.. even if it is a position it is will always be occupied by the same person unlike Brahma or Indra.

Whether one want s to worship or not depends on one’s state of sharangathai and is personal decision based on where one is situated in the eternal journey but all i am stating is we should not misunderstand and wrongly evaluate exalted devotees of the Lord.

Adiyen

 

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0 on March 11, 2018

One more doubt,
If paramshivan is a bhakta of sriman Narayana, then doing kainkaryam to shiva (bhagavata) is correct or wrong?(by visiting Shiva temple)

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4 on March 13, 2018

” A verse from Padma purana states that.. ārādhanānāṁ sarveṣāṁviṣṇor ārādhanaṁ paramtasmāt parataraṁ devitadīyānāṁ samarcanam”  ie among all worship.. Worship of Vishnu is thew best.. even better than that is worship of hi pure devotee..

So in that sense we can render service to Lord Shiva.. but the best service he wants from us is to follow the instructions of Lord in Bhagavat Geeta etc.. i.e to give up material attachment and have sense control and to be selfless..

So in essence that is the common service to both the Lord and his devotee as well..

Usually if the conception is not clear , it is recommended to avoid.

Also there is  high chance that we may want some material (even subtle ones) desires to be fulfilled from Lord Shiva.(Ashutosh) , who might easily fulfill them ,so it is advised not to worship Lord Shiva at initial stages..

So the conclusion is depending on one’s level of  realization one may or may not want to voluntarily visit Lord Shiva’s temples.. but definitely if one comes across a Shiva temple or a situation arises so one should offer respect with proper mood and proceed. Best is to follow the advice of the Acharya who can analyse the individual situation and advice.

Even yadu families in Bhagavatam are described to have celebrated Shivratri and visiting Lord Shiva temples.. they are all exalted devotees who had direct association of Lord Krishna..though we cannot imitate them..definitely we cannot afford to neglect offering respect to Lord Shiva.

Adiyen

 

 

 

 

on March 13, 2018

Adiyen disagree,

“even better than that is worship of hi pure devotee” – BhAgavatha dharmam is our dharma
Reminding “adiyArkku adiyArkku adiyArkku adiyArkku adiyArkku adiyArkku adiyen” pAsuram

So worshipping shiva as a bhAgavathA is NOT a sin but worshipping him as lord is a sin

PerumAl mattum podhum bhAgavatha vendamnu solla mudiyAdhu

“Koodi irundhuttu kulirndhElor empaavAi” including shiva let’s all worship Sriman NArAyanA

Dasanudasan

on March 13, 2018

Thanks for the explanation

on March 15, 2018

Dear Bhaktas,

Enpani 956 released on March 14 discussed about this topic.

I am not sure If Swami is answering the questions in this thread or it is a coincidental arrangement by the Lord!

In either ways was delighted to hear this timely audio.

Swami explains that Acharya must be respected and worshiped more than the Lord..(though i infer that it is done in relationship with Lord with proper understanding).

In this Context, Lord Shiva is considered as the primary acharya of Rudra sampradayam (one of the four sampradayas that Perumaal created).

Adiyen

 

 

 

on March 16, 2018

In Srivaishnavism AchAryan is always more than God himself as he can teach us how to do bhakthi and show us. While lord himself cannot show us how to.do bhakthi by doing.

Unlike Krishna who can only preach AchAryas can preach as well as practice so AchAryas are greater.

This was told by Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy
Dasanudasan

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5 on March 19, 2018

I am not asking this question to hurt anyone. How did srivaishnava acharyas answered these questions. There are two temples in Tamil Nadu I have visited.
1) Sankarankoil (near TIRUNELVELI)= where moolavar is half Shiva and half Vishnu(moolavar name is Shankara Narayana). In sthala Puranam it tells Vishnu and Shiva are same not different.

2) Manikanteshwara temple in tirumalpur near kanchi= where Sri Vishnu prays lord Shiva for regaining his sudarshaba chakra after it was destroyed(I am not posting the full sthala story here).
Both the Temples are Purana temples.
Mind slightly gets Disturbed when visiting these sort of temples.

Kindly forgive if question is Rong or hurt anyone’s feeling.

on March 20, 2018

Hope you shiva bhakthas will not be hurted my father used to say if we accidentally enter Shiva temple we should wash our legs and come home. As shiva is a God of cemetery , one cannot enter home without washing legs are bathing.
Dasanudasan

on March 20, 2018

Meaning sudukaatukku poitu vandha thalaikku kulikkanum. Shiva temple = Sudu kaadu.
KapAleeshwarar means one who holds kapAlam in his hands. He got Brahma hatthi dhosham after cutting Brahma’s head due to his Rajo and tamo Guna. He used to beg for food and the kapAla vessel never get filled so he got name kapAli. . That’s why Tamil we got name “Thiru vodu” for beggars I guess.As he already had title eeshwar it combinedly formed “Kapaleeshwarar”. The king of skulls or beggars. Then finally by Hara shaapa vimochana PerumAl and thAyAr his shapam bane was nullified. ThAyAr put bhikshai (alms) and kapAlam broke from his hand.

There were times shaivism was at peak and every attempt was made to defame Vishnu. Some temples like manikanteshwaran is a clear example. Manikandan is a parivaara devathai Demi God who including shiva a wilful servant to lord Vishnu

NArAyanA is everything so it is obvious that he may have shown as shiva too

One should have a proper identity. Be truthful to Shiva or Vishnu. Double mindset takes you nowhere. Neither of them take you to their abode and leave you stranded. Please be warned.

Dasanudasan

on March 20, 2018

No, I am not a shiva bhakta but when visiting temple like this with cousins. So the doubt. Thanks for the explanation.

on March 20, 2018

Regarding how do Vaisnava acharyas handle such situations:

I think there are few different views and perspectives (Vaisnavism)

  1. These temples are not authentic..or bonafide.
  2. The Lord can be close with his intimate devotee and can stay with him. He stays even in our heart. For example the President of a country can behave a like a friend or a servant for his grand child.. similarly the Lord can behave in anyway, so as to please or glorify his dear devotees.

In my personal opinion  i prefer the second explanation.

Yes, it is true we should be dedicated to one diety, but not at the cost of disrespecting other dieties.

However, there are examples in puranaas where exalted devotees please simultaneously both Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva like MArkendeya Rishi..another example is sage Atri and Anusaya.. We cannot imitate their actions externally without knowing what kind of internal understanding they had.

In one enpani Audio, when discussing about such sensitive topics.. Velukkudi Swami said.. we should practice the basic principles of Sanatana Dharam first , then slowly we will start understanding the real picture.

Adiyen

 

 

on March 20, 2018

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Is this a disrespect to Vishnu or not? Vishnu enna kannappa nAyanArA?
“Lord Vishnu applied His discuss on Sage Thatheesi for a king named Kuban. When the discus touched the divine body of the sage, it lost is sharpness. Worried Lord Vishnu consulted with Devas and came to know that Lord Shiva has the Sudharsana discus which he created to destroy demon Chalandarasura. Lord Vishnu came to this place and worshipped Lord Shiva with thousand flowers a day. To test the determination of Vishnu, Lord Shiva caused shortage of one flower. To make up the shortage, Lord Vishnu immediately plucked his eye and offered it in the puja. Pleased with his determination, Lord Shiva restored His eye saying that “as you offered your eye for a lotus flower, you will have the eye with lotus beauty and you will be known as Padmashan. Lord Shiva also gave His discus to Vishnu”

Can anyone endorse the above sthala purAnam? Yaru yarukku servant?

Enga NArAyanaNa seendi paaka vendaam
Ulagam azhindhu pogum

If one needs to be sAthvik one needs to stick with sAthvik purAnams ONLY

Dasanudasan

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