Vaikunta and Goloka

Updated on August 19, 2022 in Goddess
14 on August 11, 2022

Namaskaram.

adiyen happened to view the following video in youtube on “What is difference between Goloka and Vaikuntha?”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75KpjCIHS_0 

In this video, it is mentioned that Krishna is ultimate, Goloka is Krishna’s abode which is beyond Vaikuntam and Krishna is different from Narayanan / Vishnu. Quoting Brahma Samhita 5.47, it is mentioned that Lord Govinda (here it is meant Lord Krishna) allots each of the abodes to Maya devi, Lord Siva and Lord Narayanan. It means Govinda / Krishna is different from Narayanan / Vishnu. The bliss and rasas (spiritual experience) one get in Golokam is supreme than that one get at Vaikuntam.

Bagavat Gita sloka 9.6 is also referred.

adiyen’s observation:

  1. The sloka mentioned “Ye yatha mam prapadyante, tams tathaiva bhajamy aham” with ref as BG 9.6 is actually from BG 4.11.
  2. The sloka mentioned as Brahma Samhita 5.47 is actually Brahma Samhita 5.43.

I have read at some places that Brahma Samhita to be very old scripture. Leaving the error in providing wrong references, I would like to get the opinion on the statements made regarding the meaning of Brahma Samhita 5.43 w.r.to Krishna and Narayana, their abode and the spiritual experience one gets.

adiyen

SriVaishnava dasan

 
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0 on August 12, 2022

Brahma Samhita 5.43 

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bs/5/43/

goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya
devi maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu
te te prabhāva-nicayā vihitāś ca yena
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

Translation

Lowest of all is located Devī-dhāma [mundane world], next above it is Maheśa-dhāma [abode of Maheśa]; above Maheśa-dhāma is placed Hari-dhāma [abode of Hari] and above them all is located Kṛṣṇa’s own realm named Goloka. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda, who has allotted their respective authorities to the rulers of those graded realms.

 

 

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5 on August 13, 2022

Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha,

Swamy appreciate your constant curious and sincere exploration 🙏

This topic was discussed earlier in this thread..

Golokam

Swamy i think these are exalted topics and answers may vary from sampradaya to sampradaya..
( interestingly though Brahma samihita is old it’s leaflets were rediscovered 500 years back in Thiruvattaaru temple)
Personally I feel, as long as we are attracted to some spiritual planet beyond viraja river, and cross and reach there and render some service..it is fine.
(infact it is not wrong that each Sampradayam believes that their own destination planet is Supreme, because otherwise there will be no motivation.. )

Adiyen

on August 13, 2022

swamy,

Thank you for giving the link. Yes. I am aware about the thread indicated, since I was also a participant. That thread, did not discuss on Goloka to be supreme to Vaikuntam. It mention that Goloka is at north of Vaikuntam and at the same height from satya loka.

For Ramanuja devotees, Parama Padham is Achutha Divya Dhama Achutha is Supreme BhagavAn Sri Krishna, Dhama means the residence Divya is holy, So the Achutha Divya Dhama means “the place where Sri Krishna BhagavAn Happily resides”. That is none other than Swami NamAlwar.From ElayaAlwar

But there is no mention of Goloka in the above response.

Since, I got a verse which indicate Goloka to be above Vaikuntam and supreme, I have started this thread.

Brahma Samhita and Brahma Vaivart Puran are the main texts quoted in this regard. ISKCON says that Krishna is supreme and has a separate abode – Goloka, which is protected by Vasudevan whose adobe is vaikuntam. They state that even Maha Lakshmi wants to serve at Goloka. They say that Krishna alone is “aadhi purushan” and others (including Narayanan, Vasudevan, Maha Vishnu and others) are created by Krishna and serves Krishna. I think, neither Ramanujar not Shankarar gave any commentary on these two texts, whether these texts were not available to them or they did not consider?.

There are some reports in the internet that Brahma Samhita was edited, but not sure about the authenticity.

Though, it is Vaishnava sampradayam, gives a different look than Ramanujar’s sampradayan on Him and His adobe, different from the supremacy of vaikuntam as indicated in vaikunta gadiyam.

I would like to indicate that it is not only the sampradayam which gives varied detail but also the scriptures itself, giving various information on various beliefs leading to different sampradayms. That was the reason for initiating the thread

https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/aid-to-understand-spiritual-philosophy-correctly/

on structuring of these texts, topic wise and providing the detail to avoid paving way for debate on Creator itself. Scriptures giving unique details about the supremacy is required. Based on one’s inclination and interest, one can decide the route.

Though crossing the viraja river is important, one should also have a clear detail through the texts about the Supreme, since it will help in deciding one, where and whom to serve beyond viraja.

on August 14, 2022

Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha,

Thanks for the explanations swamy.
Yes it is tough to understand the details of spiritual world from being here..the differences in scriptures could be due to many possibilities..
1.difference in the perspective..
2. May be different scriptures refer to the same place with different names
3.may be different places but actually they cannot be compared materially

I think we have discussed earlier as well that differences in scriptures are due to different natures of infinite number of souls..so one size does not fit all.
So we will perhaps never have a black and white single standard script..closest universal ones are Bhagavat Geeta and Thirukkural..

And also regarding in which planet to serve.. I think since we are the property of the Lord, He will perhaps decide which is most suitable place for us.?.so I am not sure if our desire plays a role in that..not sure swami.

Adiyen

on August 14, 2022

It is the efforts and devotional worshipping of the respective deity plays a role. This is clearly stated in Gita, whoever worships which ever be it – Brahmam / demi god / deity / pitrus, he will reach him / Him.  Hence, when one have clear information, he can select that path and proceed to reach him / Him, of his choice / desire.

on August 14, 2022

Srimate Raamanujaye namaha,

Swamy, the section of Geeta referred actually talks about one spiritual abode and the rest other options discussed are within material world.
But the topic you have raised is about different parts of spiritual world.
So i think they are not exactly the same.

Adiyen

on August 14, 2022

swamy,

I understand that Vaikuntam has different portions with abodes for Rama etc., But do not how many such places are there. Their devotees serve them at such abodes. I posted the above, keeping this in mind.

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0 on August 14, 2022

Resp sri. U.Ve. Velukkudi Krishnan swamy,

Thank you for providing the enpani audio #2562 titled “இரண்டு ஆசார்யர்களை ஒப்பிடலாமா? on this thread.

The reply is well taken.

If the query is not appropriate or does not fit the guidelines of the forum, it can be deleted.

adiyen

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3 on August 14, 2022

The idea of this thread is not to find fault on any of the sampradayam. When I posted some of the threads, I knew that it can not bring out any conclusion, since they require discussion amongst learned people.

When I meet my acharya next time, will try to ask, why an unified scripture providing complete details about Him, others and other things (as stated earlier by me) could not be made available to the mankind, by Him. Why to keep it secret or making one to struggle to know?. (This point I have already mentioned in other thread, which is my main interest).

It is impossible for us to provide such details, since it will have individual interpretation.

I take this opportunity and pray sincerely to Him to make such text available, at least in the next chatur yuga, so that people will spend less time on exploration, to get the details about Him and other aspects. They can select, depending on the path of interest, be it material or spiritual, with clear idea and proceed. It is His business to provide clear information, educate and attract people towards Him. Let me look after my obligations to reach Him.

You have had samasrayanam and taken Sri Ramanuja sambandham. Once you have chosen this, kindly follow the teachings of your acharya, which is a unified text. There are no two opinions given by Swamy Ramanuja. Bhagwan has always done His duty and that is why we have had pancha samskaram. Now, it is our duty is – just follow our Acharya. Pls also read what Koorathazhwan’s father advised him – mentioned in Tirumalai vyakhyanam song 7

on August 15, 2022

Resp sri. U.Ve. Velukkudi Krishnan swamy,

Thank you for the reply. I am moved by this.

My reading and posting on other sampradayam is nothing to do with my determination on following the sampradayam which I have taken up, willingly. That is based on occasional reading and only for information. I am following my regular duties. 

Thank you for your comment on unified text. I have no doubt about the siddhanta of Ramanujar. I am given the opportunity to read / listen several texts of Vaishnava sampradayam in a very short duration, by Him, which I missed in my earlier part of my life.

I could not get the details on “Koorathazhwan’s father advise – mentioned in Tirumalai vyakhyanam song 7”, in internet, I will attempt again. Thank you for your valuable suggestion.

adiyen

on August 15, 2022

Swamy,

I would like to explain, to clear the doubt, why thought on unified text arose in me.

 

The spiritual interest was kindled in me in my late 20’s and was performing puja, but not as per Vaishnava sampradaym, though I had some exposure on ithihasas and Geetha. Kindled by the deep interest with emotion and from my depth of heart, I prayed Him (without name), to the Supreme to guide for the supreme spiritual goal. I should say, with divine guidance (through an incident), I took up Raja yoga. Besides the peaceful and undisturbed mind, had experiences, body /  mental / financial sufferings and could not continue further. Presently, understood that the method leads to kaivalyam. Now, I took up Ramanujar sampradayam.  

 

The idea on unified text arose in me because :  I left the guidance to supreme spiritual goal to Him. I was guided towards kaivalyam, rather than Ramanujar sampradayam at the very first instance. Is that because of practical difficulties associated in following during (work) service? Or any other thing. From my experience, arose this point of unified text “for other spiritual seekers” who read the scriptures and follow. It is nothing to do with my following the sampradayam.

 

Swamy, a smartha or other are filled with various beliefs and hence still has to explore and believe to know that an unified text exists in this sampradayam. One’s belief will be strengthened, if it is available in the general scripture itself. Hence, at the first instance itself one can know, decide and follow as per his interest. This is my point of (impractical) view.

 

I am not contradicting or arguing, but explaining why such a thought arose in me.

He is the best Judge. I decided to leave this exploration with this. I once again request you not to consider this as argument.

Request to excuse if there is any mistake in my views.

adiyen

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0 on August 19, 2022

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

People are talking about experiences here. To me Krishna is always silent. Adiyen have got no experience so far why? 🤔

Someone please ask Krishna to take me into his lap. Or Krishna to be in my lap.

Dasanudasan

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0 on August 19, 2022

Velukkudi sonna Perumal Keppar. Adiyen need experience.

Enough of this sansaram.

Please Swamy.
Dasanudasan

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