EnPaNi 1885 puriyavillai Mamisam virpadhu thavaru illaiya? Vittral vanguvadhai thoondAthA?

Updated on October 7, 2020 in Good qualities for human
27 on October 3, 2020

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam

Sri:
Exceptions example aaguma?

Does all duty doers possess that tapas?

This entire narration shows that its a rare occurrence.

So, do we mean to say the ones who are doing duties now but doesn’t have divine vision are not karma yogis?.

KFC owner have that much level of tapas?

Can we do anything in the name of business?

I am having this doubt for long because I heard this in VittalDas Maharaj Upanyasam in SVBC2 channel

Dasanudasan

 
  • Liked by
Reply
1 on October 3, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,

Namaskaaram Swami, This story is part of mahabaharata and swami covers  this story in detail in Mahabharata series.. I dont have the audio no (somewhere around july 15th).

But in that Audio, in later part of the story, the sage asks how about reconciling the difference between his spiritual knowledge and doing such a occupation. Then the answer given is he himself does not eat meat, but just does it with detachment and when the other people elevate and realize, for which there will be a time for each person, then he will also stop eating meat. There was some more explanation along the lines of duty as per time ,place and circumstance..

That audio might be helpful swami.

adiyen

 

 

on October 3, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha!

Swamy found the audio no it is Mahabharat series 073 dated July 15th.

You can change audio settings and reach this audio in the app.

Adiyen

Show more replies
  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel

  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel
2 on October 3, 2020

In this audio, dharma vyasar is doing Karma yoga. I hope he is a bhaktha, otherwise this incident would not have come in purana. He did not consume non veg. Even then, since himsa is done, is it not apacharam?. Just a thought.
adiyen

on October 4, 2020

Swami please hear mahabharata audio 73 dated july 15. Where this story is elaborated and the above question is answered.
Adiyen

on October 4, 2020

enpanifan swamy,

I heard it once and posted. I heard it again after your reply. I could not get the direct answer. I hope you are referring at around 9th minute in the audio. For himsa, swamy mentioned sanskrit sloka, which I could not understand. Whether reply is in that sloka?. Otherwise, kula dharmam was indicated. Or for who one does kula dharmam, the concept of himsa (hence apacharam) does not apply?. Can you elaborate. I think, this story is an interesting one.

I really appreciate your response indicating the audio within a short time. I guess probably you keep an index of upanyasams with content.

adiyen

Show more replies
  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel
0 on October 4, 2020

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam

What wrong did கொக்கு do? It was doing its duty right? It was unintentional by the way. கொக்கு கர்ம yogi தானே. அது அதோட வேலையை செய்யறது. கொக்கு பின்ன நடந்தா போகும் காற்றில் தானே போகும்?

கொக்கு என்று நினைத்தாயோ கொங்கணவா! ?

Dasanudasan

  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel

வேளுக்குடி ஸ்வாமி திருவடிகளுக்கு அடியேனின் பணிவான நமஸ்காரங்கள்.

ஸ்வாமி, பெரும் குழப்பமாக உள்ளது. What to do or not to do that is the question!

अहिंसा सत्यमस्तेयं शौचम् इन्द्रियनिग्रहः । एतं सामासिकं धर्मं चातुर्वर्ण्येऽब्रवीन्मनुः அஹிம்சை, சத்யம், பிறர் பொருள் கவராமை, சுத்தம், புலன் அடக்கம் இவை அனைவருக்கும் பொதுவான சாமான்ய தர்மம் ஆயிற்றே. அப்படி இருக்க, தினமும் மிருகங்களை கொல்வதில் ஈடுபடுவது எவ்வாறு கர்ம யோகமாகும்? ஒரு சத்திரியர் தர்மம் சார்ந்த போரிலோ, அல்லது பெரும் குற்றம் செய்தவரை தண்டிக்கையிலோ கொலையில் ஈடுபடலாம் என்று அறிகிறோம். அது போல கசாபு தொழிலில் ஈடுபடுபவருக்கு சில வரையறை இருக்கின்றனவா? 

இன்றைய சூழலில் ஒரு மென்பொருள் வல்லுநர் வலை சார்ந்த சூதாட்டம், விபசாரம், automation of salughter houses போன்றவைக்கு மென்பொருள் எழுதுவது தர்மமாகுமா? அல்லது அது போன்ற வாய்ப்புகளை ஏற்காமல் விலகிடவேண்டுமா? “என் தொழில் மென்பொருள் எழுதுவது; மற்றவர் கேட்பதை செய்வது என் தொழில், என் தர்மம்” என்று தப்பித்து கொள்வது சரியா?

பெருமாளும், தைவீக குணங்களை பட்டியல் இடையில் “அஹிம்சா சத்யம் அக்ரோதஸ் த்யாக ஷாந்திர் அபைஸுனம்” என்று அஹிம்சையை குறிப்பிடிகிறாரே. மேலும், எந்த எந்த குணங்கள் நிறைந்த பக்தன் தனக்கு பிரியமானவன் என்று பட்டியலிடையில், “அத்வேஷ்டா சர்வ பூதானாம் மைத்ர கருண ஏவ ச” என்று தானே ஆரம்பிக்கிறார்!  அப்படி இருக்க, ஒரு பக்தன் எவ்வாறு கொலை செயல்களில் தினமும் ஈடுபட முடியும்?

புராணங்களில் மற்றும் சரித்திர கதைகளில் சந்தர்ப்ப வசத்தால் விபசாரத்தில் சிக்கிய பெண்கள், அந்நிலையிலும் ஆழ்ந்த பக்தராக திகழ்ந்தனர் என்று கேள்வி பட்டுள்ளோம். அதை மனம் சற்றும் சலனமில்லாமல் ஏற்கிறது. ஆனால் ஒருவர் கசாபு தொழிலில் ஈடுபட்டார் என்று கேள்விபடுகையில் மனம் ஏற்க மறுக்கிறது!   

எண்னில் அடங்கா கேள்விகள்; என்னில் அடங்கா கேள்விகள். 

அடியோன்கள் குழப்பத்தை தீர்கவேண்டுமாய் பிரார்திக்கிறோம்.

on behalf of many others on this forum

adiyen kamban dasan.

correction:

‘பட்டியல் இடுகையில்’ என்று இருக்க வேண்டும்; ‘பட்டியல் இடையில்’ என்று அல்ல.

‘பட்டியலிடுகையில்’ என்று இருக்க வேண்டும்; ‘பட்டியலிடையில்’ என்று அல்ல.

அடியேன்

Show more replies
  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel
0 on October 4, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,

Swami based on Swamy’s Mahabharatam audio 73, what I understand is if one has perfected Karma yoga ( fully realizes one as instrument of God, thinks his work is part of God’s work, no expectation of result, not using results for himself beyond maintaining body and soul) Then such exceptional work can be accomodated.

May be in this story dharma vyasar , is already reached qualifications of all requirements of Karma yoga ( did not do his profession to increase his material life comforts) so his act did not bring any reaction to him. 

But in our case we cannot say we are fully dedicating the results to the Lord, so in our case such occupation duties may bring reaction and may be needed to avoid.

Adiyen

 

 

  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel
0 on October 4, 2020

Swamy, Namaskaaram.

One point to consider is Dharmavyadhan followed fasting over several days in a paksham, which could have served as an effective prayachittam (for those of his acts involving of culling animals, for selling). Also, present birth of him as vedan / vetan is due to sabam acquired in his previous brahmin birth and he continues to have saatvicness due to previous janma vaasanai.

Adiyen Ramanujadaasan.

  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel
0 on October 4, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,

Swami, When and why did he fast? where is it mentioned? If he did prayacittam it means he has reactions to his work..  but it does not seem so . as he was having vision of past events even without being there.. so he was a yogi already  ..at the point when sage Kowsika met him so that means he was not incurring any reactions.

Coincidentally by Perumal’s anugraham, after positng in this thread i read bhagavat Geeta and came across this verse which is very apt for the context we are discussing.

Text 4.19 “One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every endeavor is devoid of desire for sense gratification. He is said by sages to be a worker for whom the reactions of work have been burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge.”

Raamanujacharya’s explanation for the above verse is :

“The person performing karma or actions accrues reactions by attachment to desires and hankering for rewards. This is delusion as desires are imagined and fantasised before enactment. Thus it is merely a false idea or wrong notion of the mind. The fantasising alluded to here consists of the mentality which erroneously identifies the atma or soul with prakriti or material nature along with the three gunas being the modes of goodness, passion and ignorance and mistakenly conceives of them as all being one principle. But to that person seeking moksa or liberation all acts regular and occasional performed by them and necessitated by bodily maintenance are not subject to reactions being devoid of desire. Further exemption is guaranteed as the aspirant for moksa is not living in a world of imagination or fantasy because such a person performs every action while being cognisant of the eternal atma. Whoever performs karma in this manner while meditating on the atma is one of spiritual intelligence situated in atma tattva or soul realisation and all reactions to a myriad of past actions have been eradicated by the fire of knowledge. Thus Lord Krishna is praising the person who performs prescribed Vedic activities in atma tattva as being highly laudable. This is in sharp contrast to the karmi or one who performs actions for fruitive rewards being forced to accept reactions.”

Adiyen

 

  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel
11 on October 4, 2020

Swamy,

In the same 73 episode of Mahabharatam, at 9 min, it is mentioned that Dharmavyadhan fasts several days in a paksham:

It is my own understanding that even if it is considered paapam – act of being a butcher (here due to lineage), he is observing fasting. It is not mentioned as prayachittam as such. But those are general prayachittams and could clear paapams if any. This story is mainly to highlight that Dharmavyadhan had such abilities to know what happened earlier in other’s life is all due to his staunch kainkaryam to his aged parents. Plus one should not have head weight and that a person from vedan lineage could be as knowledgeable as a Rishi.

Adiyen, Thavaru irupin kshamikka prarthikkirane.

Adiyen Ramanujadaasan.

on October 5, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha!

Dhanyosmi swami, yes i heard it now about his fasting (mentioned in 9th minute).

So in this case there are two/three reasons for why he was in knowledge like a yogi without any reactions despite his occupation as butcher.

  1. He was in a different yuga
  2. He had perfected karma yoga and had no desire for sense gratification , even bodily maintenance was minimal ( as indicated by fasting), which is what indicated in text BG 4.19
  3. Also he had to fulfill the curse of the sage , he head received in previous life.

So there are multiple reasons why he did so, so we cannot follow it now in this age for our level of realization as we are not actually karma yogis. Yes, you are right the moral of the story is to show the importance of doing one’s duty to wards husband and parents.

Adiyen

 

 

on October 5, 2020

enpanifan swamy,

How yuga plays a role for reactions?.

adiyen

on October 5, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,

Swamy, please refer to the following previous threads and audio where effect of yuga and applicable principles are explained/discussed.

Clarification in ramayana Aranya Kanda sarga 11 verse 57

Swamy’s past enpani #143 “Non Vegetarian in Earlier Yugas” and additional supplement enpani #231 “why stop non veg”

In summary, life time/span  and spiritual evolution varies with yuga and accordingly there can be some differences in applicable principles.

Like a highly responsible person in high position like a director of a company/institute is not subject to lower rules like coming to office at a specified time etc.. because he is supposed to be more responsible and even if he does not do so, he is probably another important meeting or he has capacity to make up for it. so rules vary ..similarly previous yuga souls were elevated and their spiritual capacities were different.

But in this specific case of Dharmavyasa, this may not be the only reason, the other two  being his own perfection in karma yoga and the curse of sage in past life all together could have led to that situation.

Adiyen

 

 

on October 5, 2020

enpanifan swamy,

My query is not about taking non veg in different yugas. I think probably you have not got that. I used the same word reaction, as you have used in your reply, for clarity.

It is only the point on reaction in point 1, being a butcher, due to ahimsa. Is the reaction (I put it as sin or apacharam) for butchering differs from yuga to yuga?. It is in general, need not be related to the subject incident narrated.

adiyen

on October 5, 2020

Read “ahimsa” as “himsa”.

I listened to those audios. They are on taking NV. It is also mentioned that law varies from yuga to yuga. For me it does not indicate to be on the point of our discussion. As per Gita reaction shout have been there. Isn’t it?. More so, Gita is preached in kali yuga.

adiyen

on October 5, 2020

Sorry. Again made error.

“Gita is preached in kali yuga” should be , “Gita is not preached in kali yuga”.

on October 5, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,

Swamy, in BG as per verse 4.19 quoted above, reaction is there only for those who are doing the action for gratifying one’s own senses and action.

Regarding reaction, the reaction force may be same in all yuga ( if the person is doing out of desire for one’s own senses) but the effect of the reaction on the person will vary form yuga to yuga.. for example a ball and glass falls on to floor, which exerts same reaction to both , but a ball rebounds whereas a glass breaks, previous yuga souls were perhaps like balls with lot of resilience, whereas we kali yuga souls cannot afford to take chances.. This is my understanding, but if it is erroneous would be happy to get it corrected.

Adiyen

on October 6, 2020

enpanifan swamy,

Regarding, BG as per verse 4.19, it gives me another thought, of course of my own. Considering this, a person / yogi of such calibre is not be bound by the lakshanam / various other practices. Hence, more importantly, one need to control the senses. It is said that one has to put up 5 senses to His lotus feet to control. Though, one can do it mentally, how to practice?.

Velukkudi swamy mentioned that in kali yuga the time to do prayaschitam is less since the life span is less compared to other yugas. Hence, I believe, regarding the reaction, the example quoted by you may not be appropriate. However, I appreciate your thought process and also your thought of correction, if necessary.

adiyen

on October 6, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha!

Dhanyosmi swamy , for expressing your thoughts.

Adiyen

 

on October 6, 2020

Sriamte Ramnujaye Namaha,

Swamy regarding your question of how to do sense control, different paths prescribe different solutions for sense control, but in school of bhakti natural engagement in relation to Lord is prescribed as described in 

 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (9.4.18–20):

“sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor
vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane
karau harer mandira-mārjanādiṣu
śrutiṁ cakārācyuta-sat-kathodaye
mukunda-liṅgālaya-darśane dṛśau
tad-bhṛtya-gātra-sparśe ’ṅga-saṅgamam
ghrāṇaṁ ca tat-pāda-saroja-saurabhe
śrīmat-tulasyā rasanāṁ tad-arpite
pādau hareḥ kṣetra-padānusarpaṇe
śiro hṛṣīkeśa-padābhivandane
kāmaṁ ca dāsye na tu kāma-kāmyayā
yathottama-śloka-janāśrayā ratiḥ”
 

“King Ambarīṣa fixed his mind on the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa, engaged his words in describing the abode of the Lord, his hands in cleansing the temple of the Lord, his ears in hearing the pastimes of the Lord, his eyes in seeing the form of the Lord, his body in touching the body of the devotee, his nostrils in smelling the flavor of the flowers offered to the lotus feet of the Lord, his tongue in tasting the tulasī leaves offered to Him, his legs in traveling to the holy place where His temple is situated, his head in offering obeisances unto the Lord, and his desires in fulfilling the desires of the Lord … and all these qualifications made him fit to become a mat-para devotee of the Lord.”

Adiyen

 

Show more replies
  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel
2 on October 6, 2020

Namaskaram Swami!

So whatever varna one might be in, but after getting pancha samskaram, he should abstain from eating meat. Am I correct? I am asking this because in the internet there are people who are of the opinion that, except brahmins other varnas can eat meat, even if one is a Vaishnava.  Eventhough  I don’t consume meat, I was worried by the people’s opinion in internet.

I am asking this question for Kali yuga.

Please clarify this doubt for adiyen swami…

on October 7, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,
Yes swami you are right, in kali yuga recommendation for all varnas is to be vegetarian. Even before panchasamskaram.
In Mahabharata series audio no 73 , swami has explained this.
Adiyen

on October 7, 2020

Thank you very much swami, for clarifying this doubt. 

Show more replies
  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel
Loading more replies