Dear Swamy/Periyava,
Adiyen ramanuja dasan
Why in our Hindu dharmam we read detailed information or stories about enemies/devil’s like ravana, kumabkarna, karnan, dhuryothnan,etc………. ! Where in another religious God is more repeated and detailed and attraction is visible with majority. But in H our believers are trying to appreciate the Anti-Hindu/God people. Which is conflicting and time waste to know correct?.
Adiyen ramanuja dasan
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
To prove such negativity existed
Dasanudasan
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
That’s because, all of them like Ravana, Kumbarkarna, Karnan, Dhuryodhana etc.. are also Sanatana Dharmies, because they pray to all the demi-gods except Supreme Almighty GOD to full-full their desires. The scriptures and texts tell you real stories for us to choose which side we need to lean towards for the happiness of Almighty GOD.
In the present yuga, we hear a lot of discourses when the spiritualist propagates, saying we are Santana dharmies, which gives the impression that Santana dharmies are good people and only Hindu religion and others are not. That’s not true.
BhagavAn only says I like Dharmies (rule follower/good people) and not Adharmies (bad rule follower and bad people). These categories of people are born in any religion, that doesn’t mean that the bad people in any religion are preached wrong. It’s because they are not following their own good will texts or even not aware of it until they meet a devotee within their own religion or other religion. So, one needs to start liking the dharmies of other religions and not brand case one religion is all good.
People get misled easily when they use the word “Sanatana Dharma”, because it is a Sanskrit word and we get derailed that others who follow other texts are not Santana dharmies. Almighty GOD is common for all, and the demi-gods are also common for all religions. All people of any religion are created by Same Brahma and his subordinates as a service to the common Almighty GOD.
If we go and sneak peek at Central Jail in Chennai, many guilty people have a religious brand by birth, does it mean they are good because they belong to a Hindu religion by birth. Not true.
It depends on how one utilizes their will in the right way in accordance with Almighty GOD’s thoughts delivered through their own religious texts keeping aside all the weedy stories in those scriptures.
Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayacharyAr) dasan.
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
Velukkudi Srk Krishnan Swami has answered in Enpani #2894.
Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayacharyAr) Dasan.
You said, Ravana, kumbakan, dhuryodhana, etc pray to all demi-gods,
What is that new term “demi-god”??
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Because most people knew that Ravana worship Lord Shiva.
Could you please tell me who you referring here??
What is mean by demi-god??
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
The term ‘ demi-god’ is only new for those who have been currently considering those demi-god as Lord. Demi-god means Devatha. For example Shastras say GOD means Sarveshvaran which means Supreme Lord, who is nothing but Sriman Narayana, who created the devata Brahma (demi-god) who in turn created other demi-gods like Shiva, Indra etc… as a service to Supreme GOD SriKrishna.
The Supreme GOD SriKrishna is “Suddha Satvam” Guna (means only Sathvik character. The demi-gods are Jeevathmas like us but in devata body instead of human body like for a special purpose based on their Punya karma.
The catch is, anyone humans or devata are ‘Mishra Satvam’ which means a mixture of three characters ‘Satva, Rajas, Tamas’. So one who prays these devatas will get a combination of these three gunas and no wonder why Ravana went in diferent track. One who prays Supreme GOD only gets the satva gunas and our other two rajo/ramp gunas get cleansed slowly. Then at one point in this mamma or some janma, when our Sarva Guna supercedes our other two gunas, then we go for Sharanagathy on Acharya Lotus feet to get out of this countless Birth-Death relpeated cycle and Serve Supreme GOD only, since HE is the ONLY Owner of all HIS sotthu (properties), which is nothing but all the Jeevathmas trapped either in human body or demi-god body or animal body etc…
Adiyen ElayaAlwar Srinivasa DhoddayacharyAr Dasan.
Typo error corrections:
It’s:
* “two rajo/tamo” and not “two rajo/ramp”,
* ” this janma” and not “this mamma”,
* ” Satva Guna supercedes” and not “Sarva Guna….”
You said devatha but it is de”mi” God???
This “m” and “i” not in devatha and God?
Why that so?
demi-god is the closet English word in dictionary for translation of Sanskrit word devatha.
OK, then I consider “devatha”
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Basically common people (everyone) in this entire world knew that in Hinduism- origin is from 3 Gods(Lord).
Bramha – படைத்தல்
Vishnu – காத்தல்
Shiva – அழித்தல்
For the first time I heard “Lord Shiva” as a “devatha”!!!
Can you prove it??
It may be acceptable, if you say “devatha” to all other gods such as saraswathi, lakshmi, parvathy, murugan, vinayagar, Etc..
So,
Could you please give me any proof??
நான்முகனை நாராயணன் படைத்தான், நான்முகனும்
தான்முகமாய்ச் சங்கரனைத் தான்படைத்தான், – யான்முகமாய்
அந்தாதி மேலிட் டறிவித்தேன் ஆழ்பொருளை,
சிந்தாமல் கொண்மினீர் தேர்ந்து.
‘Narayana created the four-faced Brahma. Brahma created siva from himself. I dole out this deep truth through my Andadi song. Take it without spilling.’
This is the first pAsuram in nAnmugan thiruvandhAdhi given by thirumazhisai AzhwAr. There are many such pAsurams in the dhivya prabandham.
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
The proof is from shastras, Alwar paasuram which Velukkkudi Swami has told in many upanyasams which is being refered here.
I recommend you to contact Kinchitkaram Trust and ask for relevant CD’ and start from basic upanyasams like “yen piranthaen, naan yaar” etc….
Brahma is a JeevAthma like us but in a devata body rather than in a human body. The Supreme Lord Sriman Narayana choose a JeevAthma with high Punya karma for the Brahma Devata post so that he could make further creation based on Supreme GOD order. Due to which other Jeevathmas are given bodies based on one’s own karmas like human, animals, birds, aquatic, bacteria etc….This is is just to relinquish their karmas, but getting human body is precious. Supreme GOD expectation out of this creation is to use ones own freedom/ freewill to do sharanagathy on HIS holy Lotus Feet, so that HE can relieve us from our countless birth; death repeated cycle that a JeevAthma has taken.
Analogy, just an example,….
* Company President (only One),
* three vice president posts like Operations, Security, Finance
* few manager positions etc…..
* Company President only one: Supreme Almighty GOD Sriman NarayanA.
* 3 vice presidents:
1. Operations (Brahma) devatha for secondary creation,
2. Finance (Shiva) devatha for secondary dissolution based on corporate liquidation.
3. Security (Sri Vishnu). Here, there is no devatha, rather the President Himself takes up the role of Security (Protection), which makes it appear as “Tri- Murthi” concept as popularly seen in this ignorant world.
* other manager positions are the remaining demi god’s like Indra, Yama etc….total of 33 million demi-gods including Brahma & shiva to sustain the Materialistic world just as a Service to the Supreme Almighty One & Only GOD Sriman NarayanA.
Adiyen ElayaAlwar Srinivasa DhoddayacharyAr Dasan.
While started reading your reply, I thought about the same example as you mentioned.(one little difference is, instead of president I thought, CEO)
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Firstly, don’t want to make things complicated.
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Simple,
“Supreme Almighty God”
Can do anything.. Beyond our imaginations! Am I right!?!
Then why God needs assistances??
God himself can do anything..!?
(just my opinion:
If God needs assistances to run this universe, then WE ARE DEGRADING SUPREME GOD TO SUPREME PEOPLE.. & also many contradictions)
I’m absolutely ready to read/hear upanyasams relevant to this question. But not for general term “start from basic upanyasams like “yen piranthaen, naan yaar” etc…” this is a general term to escape from the question. Mention any specific upanyasams/book, I will go thru completely and come back.
(just my opinion:
Tri-Murthi is acceptable and not contradicting.)
Yes thank you
Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Divya krida ithi dhathu for Deva Shabdha says Sri Velukkudi Swamy.
We know term DevaDevan
DevAdhiDevan
Therefore, demi God exists and plays to their scope
Dasanudasan
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
@ Winrijith Bhaktha,
Regarding the further comment about “Why Supreme GOD needs assistance & Tri-Murthi word”.
The thought process looks great, but little bit of refinement will make it better understanding.
Supreme Almighty GOD doesn’t need any assistance. The concept is ‘Service’ to Supreme GOD. The Brahma is a post. The end goal of this materialistic life is to surrender to Supreme GOD, do Service for HIS happiness and get out of this birth-death cycle and reach the Permanent Nithya SriVaikuntam with Supreme GOD grace/Krupa.
So JeevAthma in Brahma or Shiva post is also under the same eagerness to get Moksha. They got their devatha body since they did Not reach Moksham in their previous birth like us. So they are serving the Supreme GOD. To us who are under our karmas, makes it appear as they are assisting Supreme GOD, which is not the case.
The word ‘Tri-Murthi’ itself is not so bad, but the concern arises, when the ignorant starts considering the Supreme GOD (ParamathmA) as equal as the other two devathas (JeevAthmas). So in order to draw the line, Sri Vaishnavaites don’t use these words, since Supreme GOD in Upanishads says “there is NO one Equal to Or Above ME’. Got it. …
Adiyen ElayaAlwar Srinivasa DhoddayacharyAr Dasan
Also for the 3rd comment, “yen piranthaen”, “naan yaar” are specific upanyasams delivered by Velukkudi Swami. I think it’s not confusing to understand from previous post….
Now the question arises,
1. Everyone serves to get out of birth-death cycle means, scientifically 10,000 years..approximately Or according to hinduism approximately 1,00,000 years.. I mean, Many Yuga’s have passed..! Why nobody gets moksha/permanent nithya? For example, Bramha.
Everyone heard of Bramha’s life span. Life span cannot be taken as a moksha. So, any Bramha got moksha? Till date?
2. As you mentioned that “Brahma or Shiva post”.
Most of the people knew that Bramha has a life span. But nobody ever heard of Shiva’s life span..!!! So, what is the life span of Shiva?
3. As you said “there is NO one Equal to Or Above ME”,
Then why Vishnu becomes one of the “Tri-Murthi”. Because, Vishnu took many avatars, each has separate name and identity. So, instead of himself in “Tri-Murthi”, Vishnu could have done (a kind of avatar with different name and identity) but NO.
Himself in “Tri-Murthi” so, what is wrong if considering equal to other two??
>> “yen piranthaen”, “naan yaar” are specific upanyasams delivered by Velukkudi Swami.
Sure, I will.
🙏🏻
1. It depends up on that Jeevathmas Aarthi (thudippu) for Moksham., Brahma or anyone…Life span of Brahma is 1 Kalpam = Brahmas 100 years.
1 year of Brahma = his 365 days
his 1 day = his 24 hrs,
his 12 hrs = 1000 chatur Yuga
1 chatur Yuga = 4 Yugas (sathya, treta, dwapra, kali) = 4:3:2:1 ratio.
1 Kali Yuga = 432000 earth years.
So you can calculate Brahma 1 Kaplan life span.
Not sure, if he went or not. But I have heard in upanyasam that JeevAthma in previous Brahma post took the Veda vyasa post in the Dwapara Yuga that just passed. So it means Moksham is no guarantee for Brahma himself. Probably if he had Swami Ramanuja Sambhandham, then we can say for sure that he went to Moksham die to Swami Ramanujar Krupai.
2. Brahma is the creator of Shiva, and When Brahma life span is over after 1 kalpam, then the Supreme Almighty GOD does Maha Pralaya, which is the the Primary dissolution of the entire Materialistic world. At that time when Brahma post itself doesnt exist, it’s understandable that his created other demi-god posts like shiva, Infra doesnt exist.
3. Supreme Almighty GOD SriKrishna in Bhagavat says those who say “I’m Equal to other devathas” eat only Paapam. With this understanding, if you refer back to the above thread, I meant that Ignorant people call Tri-Murthi. Wise people abstain from it.
Your Answers for 3 questions:
1. Not sure, no guarantee…
2. No answer (only reasons).
3. No answer (only reasons).
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➡️My opinion:
For (2), how clear Bramha’s life span, but you cannot show Shiva’s Life span like this..!
For (3), it seems upside down, please think wisely, because
For example, if a student has doubts, whatever he asks without knowing is absolutely RIGHT.
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I really don’t know.
I was already mentioned, “for the first time I heard…”
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true to myself and true to you.
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Remembering Kannadasan here. He said in அர்த்தமுள்ள இந்துமதம்,
உண்டு என்பவன் தான், அதன் காரணத்தை விளக்கி ஆகா வேண்டும்.
இல்லை என்பவன், எது கேட்டாலும் — இல்லை இல்லை என்று கூறலாம்.
So,
If SriKrishna heard my questions, he would say,
“abstain people will also eat only Paapam”⬅️
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But you have your own rights to “not to answer”
So, in that case you are right.
It’s understood that Shiva and other devata life span is less than Brahma, when Brahma himself doesn’t exist after Maha Pralaya after 1 kalpam. Then the next question will arise, why Brahma life span is being said. That’s because Upanyasakars talk about itbin Srimadh Bhagavatham when describing BhagavAn’s creation.
One can regurgirate only what is being heard in SrivAishnava Acharyas Pravachanams. I have never heard life span of Shiva in upanyasams and not necessary to know, since it’s not critical for any JeevAthmas upliftment to Moksha.
So, the ideal way A Sharanagathan look at it “Not necessary to know” rather than “Not sure”. But definitely can share if heard. It also helps one to understand that Shiva has a life span which is less than Brahma. Will the answer actually help anyone who is even following that devata. Definitely they will have tendency to disagree that Shiva has a life span, since some followers consider ignorantly as him being immortal. That could be another reason why SrivAishnava upanyasakrs don’t talk about Shiva life span just for the benefit of their followers.
Actually I understood that, if Bramha’s life span over then there will be no life existed. But it proves nothing. So I didn’t ask about that.
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“Not necessary to know” so it’s clear.
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Hence, there is no change in the answers.
So,
Proof is from shastras and Alwar paasuram.
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Alwar’s paasuram — ☑️.
Shastras — ?
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Could you name which all? from shastras?
For Shastras –?
Chandokya upanishad.6-8-4 says HOW all Jeevathmas in devata bodies or human bodies or any bodies are Shareera of ParamAthma THE Supreme Sriman Narayana
Sorry, i asked “Shastras-?” because.,
I mean, in which?
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Question is,
Lord Shiva is said to be devatha?! Could you prove it?
Answer is,
Proof is from shastras and Alwar paasuram.
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Alwar’s paasuram, 12 Alwar’s writings. So, okay.
Shastras?
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For example,
Vastu Shastra, Dharma Shastra, Yoga Vasistha, etc..
From all shastras which one or which all have the sayings about Lord Shiva as a devatha??
It could be in other references as well. My reference is from Swami’s pravachanams “Srimadh Bhagavatham” which tells us about “Samashti Shristi (Primary Creation) which BhagavAn Sriman NarayanA does, like creating appu, tejas, akash etc…up to picking a punya karma JeevAthma for Brahma post. Then BhagavAn teaches Brahma all the Vedic mantras and how to do the Secondary creation which is called “Vyashti Shristi”.
This secondary creation by Brahma is detailed in Srimadh BhagavAtam Canto 3 Chapter 12 Texts 4 through 10 talks of about these incidents about how Brahma creates other devathas to support his Kainkaryam towards BhagavAn Sriman NarayanA.
During this process, he creates Sanaka, Sananda, Sanatana and Sanat-kumara [the four Kumaras], but they refused to support his father Brahma for creation, since they wanted to be engaged in search of BrahmaM (Sriman NarayanAn) and not interested in their fathers creation process. Disrespected by his sons refusing to follow the order, Brahma did his best to check the difficult to curb anger that rose in him. In spite of the original father’s meditative control, out of his anger, straight from between his eyebrows, a child was born that had a color composed of red [for passion] and blue [for ignorance]. The child (shiva) cried loudly to the father of all the gods: ‘Oh powerful one, oh ruler of destiny, assign me my names and tell me what my places are, oh teacher of the universe.. He (Brahma), as the all-powerful one born from the lotus of Sriman NarayaNa, thus being asked, complied with the request and gently pacified the child (shiva) with the words: ‘Do not cry, I shall do what you want. Because you (shiva), oh chief of the demigods, as a boy were so anxiously crying loudly, the people will address you with the name Rudra devatha.
These Puranic incidents have been written in short by our PoorvAcharyas in Thirumazhsai AzhwAr’s Thaniyan as below due to Alwar’s divine beautiful prabandham named nAnmugan thiruvandhAdhi
நாராயணன் பதைத்தான் நான்முகனை * நான்முகனுக்கு எரார் சிவன் பிறந்தான் என்றுச்சொல் * சீரார் மொழி செப்பி வாழலாம் நெஞ்சமே!* மொய்பூ மழிசைப் பிரான் அடியே வாழ்த்து.
if I am not wrong, now the answer is.,
Srimadh Bhagavatham and Alwar paasuram
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Question is,
Lord Shiva is said to be devatha?! Could you prove it?
Answer is,
Proof is from Srimadh Bhagavatham and Alwar paasuram.
