Sri GodhaGraja’yai Namaha,
Sri Dasarathi’yai Namaha,
Asmadh Sarva Gurubhyo Namaha,
Devanagiri language version of “Neruppuda Nerungada paapom…….” is the divine background song sung by Devathas (Demi-Gods) in favour of BhagavAn Sri Lakshmi Narasimha Perumal whenever HE descends.
Dhanyosmi to all Bhagavatas & Sanatana Dharmi’s who follows Shastras/ Vedas for BhagavAn Sriman Narayanan (ParaBrahmam – THE SUPREME) Happiness. We bow our head to Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami for enlightening us with the TRUE KNOWLEDGE through various Upanyasams/Enpani audios.
Adiyen would like to surge some positive energy to the ENTRIE thread conversations starting from the defendant RKCH Bhagavata (another JeevAthma, a property of SriKrishna) without deviating from Sanatana Dharmam philosophies and in accordance with Swami’s beautiful Enpani topic #543 (Suggestion or Aggression), though Swami lowers himself to uplift Agyani samsaris like us. This makes us remember the kalyana gunam “SOWLABHYAM (easy access of magnanimous personality)” of BhagavAn SRIKRISHNA THE SUPREME during HIS avatar from HIS abode SriVaikuntam. In the same way, magnanimous Swami also interacts, enlightens, blesses us and forgives our mistakes by lowering himself with easy access like SRIKRISHNA. We are very fortunate to be born in the same period as Swami’s avataram.
If everyone have patience, then please read with diligence. If boring, then please improve the Sathvika qualities (patience, concentration etc..) by praying to Lord Anjaneya and then come back and read. If not, please ignore. However, most welcome to fix adiyens mistakes as well, since adiyen is also a JeevAthma in this samsaram bounded by adiyens Karmas/Agyanam who is trying to improve everyday with Sri Velukkudi Swami’s Anugraham and Asmadh Acharyar Krupai.
Adiyen strongly believe that Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami’s above thread answer “Rama Praying Shiva is not in Valmiki Ramanyanam which is the original source” are based on “Oran Vazhi Guru Paramparai” teachings which goes by PRAMAANAM (True source of Knowledge materials) which means taught by lineage of preceptors starting from GitaAcharyan (THE SUPREME GOD SriKrishna) via PoorvAcharyars/Swami Ramanujar and finally to us through Asmadh Acharyas as well as through Pandithargal/Vedhathikal like Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami and other VishitaAdvaita preceptors. Valmiki Ramayana was written as and when the incidents happened (so original source), and if it doesn’t state this happening, then YES, that is the answer and we ACCEPT. So We should spread Swami’s answer to other sampradhayams of Sanatana Dharmam to have a unanimous thinking.
If we are not satisfied with the answer, then it is a SCHOLARLY level debate and not to a Devotee level debate. WE should refrain from further discussions unless we are a scholar & the opponent is also a learned scholar. We should apply the same on other situations as well, if we get caught-up in conversations as “Is Advaitham or VishishtaAdvaitam the great?, Or, Is Thenkalai or Vadakalai the great? Or, Hare Krishna Nama Sangeertanam or Prapatti for Moksham the great, 1st varna or last varna who gets Moksham first, Male or Female gets Moksham first, or age 20 to improve till age 80 for Moksham, these are all Vidhadavaadham, who are we to decide?. If BhagavAN gives Moksham at age 20, then he gives, we should not propagate that Bhakthi will improve at age 80 and then Moksham, since BhagavAn’s Karunai is the KEY in Sanatahana Dharmam which decides Moksham irrespective of age? etc….
Have we undergone Spiritual studies from a preceptor for many years to acquire the true knowledge to become as a Scholar (Pandithar or Vidhvaan or Vedhanthi), if not, we have NO AUTHORITY to defend Swami’s answer, since our knowledge is a “mixture of knowledge acquired by listening to various teachings + poking in to all other sampradayam answers + Google search knowledge + friends relatives sharing information + attaching our own expectations to the answer based on our vipareetha vaasanai/vipareetha gyanam plus whatever…..”. There is possibility that some of our knowledge may be correct and some are incorrect.
So, how to validate our knowledge is by referring back to Swami’s Upanyasams and REGURGITATING/SHARING the same answer to others without mixing our own expectations/attachments/ignorance as much as possible. There is nothing wrong in sharing TRUE knowledge, if we can REFERENCE it to the POORVACHARYAR’S teachings (PRAMAANAM). But adiyen’s PRAMAANAM is fully relying on Swami’s Pravachanams, either Upanyasams or EnPani which is overruled again with Sri Velukkudi Swami’ Anugraham and Acharyar Krupai. Adiyen believe each one of us expect the same. Isn’ it?.
Accepting Swami’s answer or not?, is one’s own personal intuition. But, we have to keep ourselves with OPEN MIND to ask a question to Swami & get clarified, which we do. If anyone is not satisfied with Swami’s answer, then they can ask further question POLITELY to Swami and get it clarified and move-on. If we counter question Swami’s answer improperly, then we need to ask apology to Swami as Swami’s knowledge is PURE as a DIAMOND and our knowledge is also a diamond but covered with lot of dirt. Adiyen also believe that, the knowledge that we gained is definitely through Swami’s upanyasams, and we are utilizing the same knowledge to counter question Swami’s answer. Swami will gently smile at us and forgive like a Father forgives a Child’s mistake (EnPani #669 “How to forgive”). At the same time, from our end, we cannot attach OUR OWN personal expectations on Swami’s answer, which is what SrKrishna clearly tells in BhagavAt Gita as NOT to do (Chapter 2 Text 62 “dhyayato visayan pumsah…..” meaning—-While dealing with the objects of the senses, we develop attachment for them, and from such attachment, the lust develops, and from such lust, the anger arises).
Same situation about Swami Ramanujar life incidents as Questioned by a BhagavAta in this thread. Sri Velukkudi Swami was already asked this question by another Bhagavata in a different thread, and Swami has responded in the Dharma Sandeha Thread under topic “Two parallel happenings in Jagatacharyar’s life”
So, when we already have the answer, why do we need to confuse ourselves listening to gossips as mentioned by a Bhagavata in this thread as some “Shaivate’s are saying…….”.
If we need to know further details of this incident, we could very well ask Swami again. If Swami is willing to answer, then yes, we will get the answer. Shaivate or Vaishnavaite or any other categories refers to this perishable body only, but the actual TRUTH is “everyone of us are non-perishable JEEVATHMA, subservient to BhagavAn all the time”.
Swami Ramanujar is Adhisheshan avataram sent by BhagavAn to uplift agyani (ignorant) samsaris and take to SriVaikuntam , so we can enjoy the Permanent Happiness by doing Nithya Kainkaryam. So Swami Ramanujar did many sacrifices in his avatar term like ” Naan Narakam (hell) ponaalum Parava illai, Yella JeevAthma SriVaikuntam adayumaey / நான் நரகம் போனாலும் பரவா இல்லை, எல்லா ஜீவாத்மா ஸ்ரீவைகுண்டம் அடையுமே “, so HE superceded the promise that HE gave to HIS Acharyar Thiru Kozhtiyoor Nambi. Either we follow Swami Ramanujar or not, we need to keep the Respect for Mahans. Also, we need not be told of all the Deva Rahasyams of Swami’s avataram. Please listen to Swami Ramanujar Vaibhavam and related so many upanyasams.
When Sriman Narayanan THE SUPREME creates the Leela vibhoothi, HE also makes the related shastras, so each of us could follow including the demi-gods Brahma, Shiva, Indra etc.. Like, BhagavAn SriRama Avatar was to show us “How to repect ELDERS” (Elders means who is not only aged but also follows Shastras; and not just being an elder by age and not following shastras). BhagavAn says to consider Maatha-Pitha-Guru as Deivam (GOD), which means this statement is applicable to ONLY those people who follows “Shastras ” and have “Thani Manitha Ozukkam (Self Disiplined Moral Behaviour)”. Rest are just Maatha-Pitha-Guru for name sake and not to be considered equivalent to Deivam (GOD). At the same time, we cannot disrespect them, since they will also follow shastras at some point and become a Bhakta, like how we were a parent in past Janmas without following shastras and got this janma. Finally by hearing Swami’s upanyasam in this janma, we are trying to follow shastras and become a Bhakta.
Coming back to the topic. SriRama did Namaskaram and Prayed to his father Dhasharata. Does it mean, Dhasharata is the SUPREME GOD?. SriRama also did Namaskaram to all Elders. Does it mean, all Elders are the SUPREME GOD?. SriRama during Vana Vasam, did Namaskaram and Prayed to the Rishis/Sages in the forest. Does it mean, the Rihsis/Sages are the SUPREME GOD?. In SriKrishna Avatara, SriKrishna showed a calf how to drink water from a river by folding his hand backwards & then bending the knee down and then bowing his head towards the pond and licked the water, so the calf could learn how to drink. Does it mean cow is the SUPREME GOD?. When BhagavAn creates the Leela vibhoothi and put JeevAthma inside cow body or Human body or other bodies, HE also trains them on how to utilize the body to do their respective bodily Dharma like the calf drinking water.
Even if Rameswaram incident is quoted in different Ramayana other than Valmiki Ramayana written by different scholars, we can accept the answer in a view point that “since SriKrishna put a JeevAthma inside a Deva body (in this case Shiva body) as in vedas, then yes, there are going to be followers of that demi-god Shiva. So it is Supreme BhagavAn SriRama’s responsibility to show how a person interested in praying the Demi-God Shiva should follow the rules. Hence SriRama showed how to pray Shiva in Rameswaram, like how SriKrishna showed the calf how to drink water from river”.
From the above references, even-if another version of Ramayana says, SriRama prayed to a demi-God Shiva, then it is to show/teach, how a devotee of that particular demi-God should prostrate to that demi-God, since SriRama created that particular demi-God and the entire world, so it is SriRama’s responsibility to show/teach how one should follow. So, we cannot force a devotee of SUPREME GOD SriRama to pray a demi-god, since the SUPREME SriRama is doing it, since we are only devote and cannot compare ourselves with SriRama’s actions. It is up to the personal interest of a devotee to pray to whichever demi-God they want as prescribed in Shastras/Vedas.
Adiyens understanding from Upanyasam is, For those JeevaAthms who are interested to be in the Leela Vibhoothi very much can Prostrate/Pray to any demi-God which will help them to continue in the birth-rebirth cycle (Example is myself in Past Janmas and in the present Janma till adiyen did Sharanagathi to Perumal via Acharyar ThiruvAdi). But, if anyone decide, I don’t need any more re-birth (enough is enough), then they go and do Sharanagathi (Anyone from any kulam or varna is eligible for that) to the SUPREME LORD SriVishnu and then-on, they stay away from disturbing the demi-Gods, since those demi-God’s (Brahma/Shiva/Indra etc..) don’t have any authority to give Moksham. Moreover, those demi-Gods have to do their own responisbility to given boon to their devotees based on their caliber which they acquired by Prostarting/Praying to SriVishnu. Also, we need to keep in mind that those demi-Gods themslef also needs to go to Moksham at some point with BhagavAN’s grace. So, it is unfair for a Sharanagathan to go to a demi-God and disturb them, since it is directly disrespecting the demi-God, as they cannot give us what we want which is the Moksham. Anyone of us (JeevAthma) could have taken that demi-God position in the past jamnas, we never know. So a Sharanagathan stay away from such activity.
There is only ONE GOD (SriKrishna) and 33million demi-Gods which includes Brahma, Shiva, Indra, etc.. There are 14 worlds. All these comprises as one ANdaKadakam (Universe). Like wise, there are millions of AndaKadakams, whcih has same set-up, a different Brahma, Shiva, Indra etc… but all AndaKadakams under one GOD control the SUPREME SRIKRISHNA, who is also taking as VIshnu Avatar on each of these AndaKadakams to help the demi-Gods to run HIS Leelai.
There is only ONE ParamaAthma (SriKRISHNA) and millions of Chit (JeevAthmas, Sentient which includes demi-gods, humans, animals, etc…) and millions of Achit (Achetanam, Insentient materialistic things..)
Swami has said in many upanyasams that there are only two Jaathis in the whole world, One is “Prapanna Jaathi” and another is “Varungaala (Future) Prapanna Jaathi”, since “SriVaikuntam Puguvadhu Mannavar Vidhiyaey”, either in this Janma or some janma, all jeevaAthmas have to reach SriVaikuntam as final destination. All the 4varnas and kulams are sub-division to each of the above two Jaathis to do their own dharmam with “Yatha Shakthi” in whichever varna/kulam we (JeevaAthma) get the body. Like, Anthanar to Anthiyar have to do their prescribed dharma as per shastras.
Being in whichever varna/kulam, either we are a devotee or a non-devotee, still we have to follow “THANI MANITHA OZHUKKAM”, which is the base foundation of SANATANA DHARMAM. There are numerous topics under the category “Behaviour” in EnPani.
As far as Equality is concerned, Swami has answered how to treat everyone equal under the EnPani #19 (Topic: “Atma Samatvam”). Please listen.
Adiyen doesn’t feel that there is any fighting or agitation going on under this topic or BhagavAn Kalki will take Avataram tomorrow, but adiyen agree that there is Vicharm (unnecessary debate) with high intensity which is leaning towards Apacharam (insult to BhagavAta). BhagavAn SriKrishna THE SUPREME DOESN’T like either “VICHARAM and/or APACHARAM”, as it is a road block for SriKrishna ANUBHAVAM, so we should refrain from such conversations. If we continue, it will ofcourse confuse BhagavAn himself and may definitely affect ANY JeevAthma getting Moksham in the same birth (EnPani #506 “Who is a BhagavAta”).
Also, why do we need to worry or focus on other religions % increase by 2050. Is this a task given by the SUPREME SriKrishna for us?. The answer is NO. BhagavAn will decide which faith will lead to HIS lotus feet, we don’t need to worry about HIS creation, since it is HIS responsibilty. We should focus only what Sanatana Dharmam says without Apacharam or Vicharam and attain Moksham which only SriVishnu can grant, which is the purpose of life (GOT THIS BIRTH TO REALIZE NOT TO TAKE RE-BIRTH). Our responsibility is to follow what Sanatana Dharmam says.
We ALL (Sentient and Insentient, or any matham) belong to one family VASUDEVA KUDUMBHAM as said by Rishis and Sages.
On top of this, Anyone who accepts the Shastra’s/Vedas and accepts what Shastra’s/Vedas says about the ABSOULTE TRUTH which is nothing but THE SUPREME SRIKRISHNA himself is a SriVaishnavaite (It doesn’t matter which varna or kulam he belongs to). Further, the JeevaAthma has to propose the AASAI to BhagavAn to go to Moksham, then he becomes a Prapannan”.
A Prapannan have to continue to adhere what SriKrishna says, one of example is eat only food that is offered ONLY to ME, since SriKrishna is the only SUDDHA SATHVAMAYAM (ParamaAthma) and all others are JeevAthma’s in their respective Mishra tatvam bodies (Rajas and Tamas gunas).
Adiyen is a JeevaAthma who is stuck-up in this human body, and some JeevaAthmas are stuck-up in Deva bodies like Brahma body, Shiva body, Indra body etc…. So can I offend another JeevaAthma residing in a deva body?. The answer is NO, since that JeevaAthma is also a Sotthu (property) of SriKrishna. Everyone of US (JeevaAthmas) have to get relief (reach MOKSHAM) from this Mishra Tatvam body. This will happen only if we (JeevaAthmas) Totally surrender to BhagavAn SriKrishna.
BhagavAn SriKrishna also says, there is NO ONE EQUAL TO ME or ABOVE TO ME, so even thinking in mind or even speak that “this purana says this is GOD & that purana says this is GOD etc..” is a Paapam. Then how will we get SriKrishna’s blessing and attain Moksham. HE will be UDHASEENAN till we realize and come back and surrender to HIS Lotus Feet. We have gone through millions of Janmas and finally got this Human body. If we miss this Train, then we are back to the same status as “Punarabhi Jananam, Punarabhi Maranam, Punarabhi Jananii Jatareay Shayanam….” as said by Adi Sankaracharyar. We never know, when we will get another human body. It could be another millions of years or may be never.
At the same time, a Sanatana Dharmi can eat food offered to other JeevAthmas present in the Mishra tatvam Deva bodies (like Brahma or Shiva or Indra etc..), it is not considered as an offense as per Shastras, but we will get the qualities (paapam/punyam/gunas) of that Jeevathma that is residing in that Mishra tavam deva body which has Rajas & Tamas gunas, which in-turn will influence our behavior. That is a personal choice of a Sanatana Dharmi, but we cannot direct a SriVaishnavaite/Prapannan to accept food offered to other JeevaAthmas residing in deva bodies. If we say so, then we are offending SriKrishna (THE PARAMATHMA) himself, which no one should, since SRIKRISHNA THE SUPREME has clearly instructed how a SriVaishanavaite/Prapannan should lead the rest of his life before he attains Moksham in the same birth with SriKrishna’s Lotus Feet Anugraham which is nothing but the Asmad Acharyar ThiruvAdi.
Like, when a parent is in the process of searching bridegroom (Who is the SUPREME GOD) for a bride (Future Prapannan), there will be many bridegroom choices (Yetthai Thinnal Pittham Theliyum, Is this the Final GOD or Is that the Final GOD), but once the bride (now turned to a Prapannan) gets married (Prapatti) to the bridegroom (SriKrishna THE SUPREME), then the HUSBAND (SUPREME GOD) is the one that bride will LIVE with and they share same food and the women likes to eat the food in same plate as her Husband ate. At this time, can a non-married women advise the bride to LIVE or eat the food from one of the previous bride groom choices (other Deities) as if, it is nothing wrong since your parent were initially looking for some bridegroom anyway? Is this situation applicable after a women (Prapannan) got married to a MAN (SriKrishna who is the PURUSHOTHAMAN). Isn’t this absurd and ludicrous.
Cashew nut is good for everyone, but some kids are allergic to cashew nuts and get rashes. So a parent totally avoids the buying or bringing cashew nuts at their home, since by mistake there is possibility that the kid will eat it from the kitchen and finally the parents are the one who feels the pain looking at their child’s suffering which is due to his own ignorance. So, is it wrong if a parent enquires if a neighbor brings food made with cashew nuts? The parent will tell, none of us eat cashew nuts, since my kid is allergic to cashew nut. This is not an offense. This is SriVaishavism.
At the same time, there are two instances about Moksham and the Supremacy. Anyone born in any varna or kulam can have the desire to go to Moksham. It will be granted ONLY by SriKrishna.
- Markandeyan is a VEERA devotee of the JeevaAthma residing in the Shiva body. He gave all the boon to Markendeya as he wished. At one point, Markandeya asked Him, I would like to go to Moksham. Then, the JeevaAthma in the Shiva body said, I don’t have any Jurisdiction to grant Moksham, since I myself don’t know where is Moksham. He said only SriVishnu can grant Moksham as HE is the SUPREME. This proves “SriVaiKuntam Puguvadhu Mannavar Vidhiyaey”
- GantaKaranan was a VEERA devotee of the JeevaAthma residing in the Shiva body. Why he was called as GantaKarana is because he wears a Ganta (bell) in his ears (Karanan). So when anyone says or chants name of SriKrishna, then he keeps shaking his head so that the bell rings loudly and he will not be able to hear BhagaVan’s name. His nature is man-eater. At some point, from somewhere he has heard about Moksham/Mukthi/SriVaikuntam. So, he approached the JeevaAthma in the Shiva body and asked where is Moksham and I want to go there. This was during the SriKrishna Avatar period. So, He said to GanataKaranan that I’m Helpess and Moksham is beyond my jurisdiction. He said that SriKrishna has said to come to Kailasam, so when HE comes here, you can ask HIM directly about Moksham. We know GantaKaranan is a Dveshi of SriVishnu, but on seeing SriKrishna, GantaKaranan wanted to offer something, but his habit is man-eating. At that time, he saw a rishi doing tapas (Bhakthi Yoga Margam) to go to Moksham. He killed him immediately and offered it to SriKrishna and asked Moksham. SriKrishna was shocked, but he gave the Rishi and GantaKaranan and his brother who was just standing nearby also to Moksham.
Where can we fit this incident (Rishi without completing Bhakti Yoga Margam got Moksham) & GantaKaranan who is a man-eater & dveshi (hated) of SriVishnu offered this food and attained Moksham, and his brother who never even asked for Miksham also got Moksham. This is because of GantaKaranan’s just last minute desire to go to Moksham.
Can we do the same as GantaKaranan, the answer is NO, because we are not GantaKaranan, we are Humans and we have to follow what SriKrishna has said us to do in BhagavAt Gita and offer the Prescribed Vegetarian food what SriKrishna says in BhagavAt gita and to the capacity to what we have in this Janma without offending anyone.
So, we know who is THE Supreme and what kind of powers HE has to give Moksham. HE need not prove this to anyone. SriKrishna only expects the AASAI and expects us to say “I’m HELPLESS”, since I have gone to all demi-gods and no one can give Moksham, since they themselves don’t know where is Moksham, but THEY (Demi-Gods) directed me to the correct place as to who is the SUPREME GOD SriKrishna himself to getting Moksham.
So, a Future Prapannan (Future Devotee of SriKrishna) cannot give ignorant advises to a Prapannan (Surrendered Devotee) to follow or accept food from a demi –god Shiva , since the Future Prapannan himself is not clear who is the SUPREME GOD (Yetthai Thinnaal Pittham Theliyum).
AND a Prapannan cannot offend any Demi-God at any time, since they are also a JeevaAthma belonging to SriKrishna like us trapped in ordinary Human Bodies.
At the same time, a Prapannan cannot deviate his mind, thinking, speech, actions on to another demi-god, since it is same as a wife paying attention onto neighbors wife’s husband and betraying own HUSBAND THE SUPREME Sriman Narayanan, when we have SUrrenderred on HIS lotus Feet. A prapannan is wife (JeevAthma) of one HUSBAND the SriKrishna (ParamAthma) and a wife is devoted to her HUSBAND ONLY.
Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Acharyar Thiruvadigalaey Sharanam
Swami Ramanujan Yennai Aandananaey,
Chella Pillai Yathiraja Sampathkumar SriKrishna Ki Jai….
Sarvam SriKrishnarnam Asthu