LOVE MARRIAGE

Updated on June 4, 2024 in General
17 on May 26, 2024

Adiyen Swamy🙏🏼
Why generally love marriage of intercaste in sanatan dharma is not accepted !? Does a boy or a girl doesn’t have the right to choose their partners !? Those days marriage has been taken place in different varnas for ex. Gandarva or Rakshasa vivah had been taken place but why it is essential to get married in same caste though the partners decided to do kaiggarya to god !?

 
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0 on May 26, 2024

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Sri:

Who cares? Nowadays Vadakalai Iyengar marrying Australian cricketer and sending typical yellow traditional invitation saying “Acharyan Anugraham” “Ahobila Matam” etc.

One day a mami said to Velukkudi’s son in Sankara TV “I am intercaste married but saying Rama nama”.

This is a trend. Rules are only for those who follow AchAryAs directions. Not for youngsters who are modern social secular and blah blah

My own daughter (by relation being chithapa that too grand daughter of ashram roots) got married to a Nadar. So jolly keep enjoying. Who cares what elders think?

In my college an Iyer girl married my class mate who is a non Brahmin.

Till this point there is no mistake.

But when they talk “rules” of SanAthana dharma to us I get pissed off.

Neenga Periyava pecha kekkala apuram Vaishnavam na enna avaishnavam na enna? Yaru ekkedu kettu pona ungalukku enna?

Edhukku rules pesi enga kazhutha arulkarel? Naanga pazhaya panjangam agavey irundhuttu porom.

Neenga moderna irundhundu YouTube la video pottu conference nadathungo we don’t care. Least bothered.

But one thing such people who take Perumal’s instruction for granted will take many life cycles to reach him back.

Perumal will say “Keep doing what you like after you get tired let’s see about SriVaikuntham

Rama nama sonna seriya poidum na na othuka maten. Appo yaru enna venalum.pannitu Rama nama solli escape agidalam.

Dasanudasan

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0 on May 26, 2024

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

To those who think
“Love Marriage Panna Enna thappu?”
Please do what you like

One small request:
Please don’t disturb my Guru Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy or his parampara.

They have sacrificed their entire life to Sri Vaishnava Sampradhayam.

Dayavu senju kenju kettukaren please avAla vitudungo.

🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇

Similarly please don’t disturb our AchAryas. They have done self shraddham meaning death ritual for themselves before ascending to throne as AchArya.

Ava kitta poi ekku thappa kaetta Maha Pavam sambhavikkum.

They have sacrificed their entire life to become SanyAsi.

I understand there is an urge for worldly pleasures but don’t take it to their level.

They are beyond that.

Dasanudasan

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1 on May 26, 2024

SrI:
SrImathE SatakOpAya nama:
SrImathE rAmAnujAya nama:
SrImath varavaramunayE nama:

varNASrama dharmam refers to the duties and responsibilities assigned to individuals based on their varNam (caste) and ASramam (stage of life). This framework aims to maintain social order and spiritual progression.

1. **Preservation of Dharma and Tradition**:
– The concept of marrying within one’s varNam is deeply rooted in the desire to preserve dharmam and the practices that have been followed traditionally. This ensures that the cultural and religious values, rituals, and duties are maintained and passed down through generations without dilution.
– SrIvaishNava tradition emphasizes the importance of following the practices as instructed by AzhwArs and AchAryas. They are revered for their strict adherence to the scriptures and the maintenance of spiritual purity and discipline.

2. **Spiritual Purity and Community Integrity**:
– Marrying within the same varNam is seen as a way to ensure spiritual purity and to uphold the integrity of the community. It is said that individuals from the same varNam share similar cultural and spiritual practices, which makes it easier to maintain religious observances and family traditions.
– AchAryas emphasize the need for purity in practices, as seen in the guidelines for daily routines and the observance of various rituals. These practices are considered essential for the spiritual upliftment of the individual and the community at large.

3. **Scriptural Guidance and Examples**:
– Scriptures and historical texts provide examples and guidance on ideal marital practices. For instance, marriages like gandharva or rAkshasa vivAham were acceptable in certain contexts but were exceptions rather than the norm. The norm has been to marry within one’s varNam to ensure alignment in values and religious duties.
– The lives of AzhwArs and AchAryas reflect strict adherence to varNASrama dharmam. Their teachings and actions serve as a model for followers to emulate. For instance, the adherence to traditional marriage practices can be seen as a form of respect towards the guidelines laid down by these revered figures.

While traditional practices emphasize marrying within one’s varNam, it is also important to recognize the individual’s right to choose their partner. The tension between traditional practices and modern values of individual choice can be navigated through respectful dialogue and understanding the deeper reasons behind these traditions.

adiyEn rAmAnuja dhAsan.

on May 27, 2024

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

“While traditional practices emphasize marrying within one’s varNam, it is also important to recognize the individual’s right to choose their partner. ”

Idhukku neer ivlo periya paragraph ezhudhAmalEy irundhirukkalAm.

What damn individual rights when parents who took care till 20+ years are deeply hurted?

Namakku enna amayardhO adha vechundu dhAn sandhoshamA irukkanum.

It’s all about family integrity and not just one’s own chiice.

After listening to Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy’s upanyasam if one still asks why my own selfish interest not counted then only lord Vishnu knows how world can be saved!

My classmate Iyengar vadakalai is still unmarried. Avan amma parama padhichutta. He is looking for varan. I am looking for varan for him. Nothing fixed yet. That lusu is sticking to Sampradhayam. Love marriage panni thola da na kekka matengaran.

Here in dharma sandeha we talk about love marriage and individual interests and rights. Velangidum Sampradhayam.

Dasanudasan

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0 on May 27, 2024

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

59:47

“Adhu dhan dharmam, dharmam ngradhu Shastram ngrathu chattunu namakku purinjuraapula irukkadhu. Dharma Shastram nAma padichA kuda adhan padi vaazhndhavargal yArO avargal upadesham padi nadakka vendum”

What else can be said than this miracle statement?

Here the analysis is between Lakshmana Swamy’s Amma and BhararhAzhwAn’s amma.

I can give references from scriptures
“Dharma PathnyA Saha”

But what’s the use after marrying non Brahmin how can one do Agni kAryam?

VadhyAr SwAmy kAsu vAngindu edha venalum pannuvAr, karmam palikka vEndAmA?

Dhurlabam mAnusham janma. Perumal kitta nirandharamA pOga vEndiya nErathula love marriage namakku thEvayA? Yosingo…

Apuram AjAmilan lifestyle dhan. Kedacha undu illati another lifetime and it goes on…

Dasanudasan

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0 on May 27, 2024

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

1:29:04
Timeline

Na sonnatha than Velukkudi yum soldrAr.

Perumal thappa panna vitutu vedikka papar. Apuram jeevAthmvA vukku bore adicha udaney Vaikuntathukku vA nu solluvAr. -Intercaste Marriage is one of them

First jollyA irukkum
Apuram RamA nAmA solla vEndiyadhu dhAn

See we are getting all answers from one upanyasam

Dasanudasan

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1 on May 27, 2024

namaskAram swAmy,

adiyEn appreciates dhEvarIr’s feedback and understand the deep concern for preserving our traditions and dharma. I did not intend to oppose or undermine the importance of varNASrama dharmam or the practices upheld by our AchAryas and AzhwArs.

In my original statement, I emphasized the preservation of dharma, spiritual purity, and adherence to scriptural guidance. Here are some key points I made:

1. **Preservation of Dharma and Tradition**:
– adiyEn acknowledged that marrying within one’s varNam is deeply rooted in the desire to preserve dharmam and traditional practices, ensuring that cultural and religious values are maintained through generations.

2. **Spiritual Purity and Community Integrity**:
– adiyEn highlighted that marrying within the same varNam is seen as a way to ensure spiritual purity and uphold the integrity of the community, as individuals from the same varNam share similar cultural and spiritual practices.

3. **Scriptural Guidance and Examples**:
– adiyEn referred to the guidance provided by scriptures and historical texts, which often emphasize marrying within one’s varNam to ensure alignment in values and religious duties.

adiyEn also mentioned the importance of recognizing individual rights, not to negate tradition but to highlight the ongoing dialogue between tradition and modern values. adiyEn’s intention was to foster understanding and respectful dialogue to navigate these complexities, not to promote selfish individual interests.

dhEvarIr’s concerns about family integrity and the sacrifices made by parents are valid and deeply respected. It is crucial to balance traditional values with empathy towards individual circumstances, always guided by the wisdom of our AchAryas and the teachings of our sampradAya.

adiyEn hope this clarifies adiyEn’s position. Let us continue to uphold our traditions while engaging in thoughtful and respectful discussions about their application in our lives.

adiyEn rAmAnuja dhAsan.

on May 27, 2024

As swami said marriage could be done between same varnas, then what varnas does
mean !?
Bramanas,Kshatriyas,Vaishyas and
Suddras right !? Nowadays many castes are embedded in these varnas. For instances,vaishya has many castes inside so marrying a person under vaishya but different caste also comes under varnadharmashramam!? Marrying a Brahmin to Brahmin , marrying Vaishyas to Vaishyas but not on subject to their caste.

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3 on May 27, 2024

namaskAram thuLasi amma,

dhanyOsmi for dhEvarIr’s thoughtful question. To address dhEvarIr’s query about varNASrama dharmam and marriage within varNams, here is a detailed explanation:

**Understanding varNams and Marriage:**

1. **Traditional varNams:**
– The four main varNams are brAhmaNas, kshathriyas, vaishyas, and ShUdhras. These classifications have historically been determined by birth and are essential for the smooth functioning of society, as they assign specific duties and responsibilities to each group.

2. **Sub-Castes within varNams:**
– Within each broad varNam, there are numerous sub-castes or jathis that have developed over time based on regional, occupational, and social distinctions. For example, within the vaishya varNam, there are many different sub-castes.

**Application to Marriages:**

3. **Marriage within the same varNam:**
– Marrying within the same broad varNam (e.g., brAhmaNa with brAhmaNa, vaishya with vaishya) aligns with the principles of varNASrama dharmam. This practice helps preserve dharma, cultural values, and spiritual practices within the same broad category.

4. **Different Sub-Castes within the Same VarNa:**
– Marriages between individuals from different sub-castes but within the same broad varNam are also considered to adhere to varNASrama dharmam. For instance, a marriage between individuals from different sub-castes within the vaishya varNam is acceptable as it respects the broader varNa classification.

**Conclusion:**

**Maintaining Tradition and Flexibility:**
– The key is to maintain the traditional varNam classification while allowing for flexibility within sub-castes. Marrying within the same broad varNam(regardless of sub-caste differences) helps ensure the continuity of dharmam and the preservation of cultural and spiritual practices.

In summary, when we talk about varNASrama dharmam in the context of marriage, it means ensuring that marriages occur within the same broad varNas: brAhmaNas, kshathriyas, vaishyas, and ShUdhras. This practice respects the traditional division while accommodating the diversity within each varNam’s sub-castes.

adiyEn hope this clarifies dhEvarIr’s question. Let us continue to honor our traditions while engaging thoughtfully with contemporary societal structures.

adiyEn rAmAnuja dhAsan.

on May 28, 2024

Thankyou for your beautiful explanation swami !
Yes,but why do people in the society nowadays not considering the varna but only seeing the jaati. Due to this societal structure, no one considering as seeing the varna as a first step on marriage proposal they see within Their caste and stating the intercaste marriage as a sin.Is it a sin committing to intercaste marry to same varna !?
Also due to this our elders wrongly believe those societal structures and not letting to marry of same varna but different caste !?
Does this caste system existed on those Vedic period !? In sansthan dharma is caste system followed or varna dharma followed !? God will accept the intercaste marriage of same varna though parents and our elders didn’t accept !?

on May 28, 2024

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha

?????

Ramanujadhasan17 Swamy,
Thulasi mami putting bouncer on bouncer. Eppadi samakikka poreer?

Pattimandram soodu pidikardhey.

To my understanding
“Caste is a refined system of Varna”

Really No idea as to how it was formed!?

Jaggi Vasudev used to say “It easy to inherit business of goldsmith if married within same caste”

My Patti used to say
“Marrying Iyer & Iyengar itself an intercaste marriage”

In fact in olden days people used to double think marrying “Vadakalai & Thenkalai” within same Iyengar community itself.

Same kalai was preferred those days.

Going by that factor it must have been refined too much.

One thing elders did consider aspects to preserve Sampradhayam. So it’s not as if elders don’t know Varna etc.

They were super intelligent than us and we fail to acknowledge it that’s the problem.

Dasanudasan

on May 28, 2024

But swami,these days even jaathi cannot be correctly classified under the varnas
For ex. Bhagwan krishnar born under Yadu clan but her Yadu clan maybe kshathriyas but what about Yadava konar(Pillai – Gopas and gopikas) are they also come under kshathriya varna!?
Likewise, nowadays Vellalar gounder doesn’t have a clarity in which varna they belong,kshathriya or sudhras !? There is no much clarity on varnas nowadays !

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2 on May 28, 2024

SrI:

SrImathE SatkOpAya nama:

SrImathE rAmAnujAya nama:

SrImath varavaramunayE nama:

 

Addressing thuLasi amma’s Questions:

1. Why Society Focuses on jAthi (caste) instead of varNam: – Over time, societal focus shifted more towards jAthi (caste) due to regional and occupational distinctions. This shift was influenced by historical, social, and economic factors. While the original varNaSrama system aimed at broader classifications, the caste system became more rigid and localized.

2. Is Inter-Caste Marriage within the Same varNam a Sin? – According to SrIvaishNava principles and broader vedic traditions, marrying within the same varNam but across different sub-castes is not considered a sin. The key is maintaining the broader varNASrama classification and upholding dharmam. – Inter-caste marriages within the same varNam aligns with the principles of varNASrama dharmam as long as they respect and preserve the cultural and spiritual practices associated with that varNam.

3. Historical Existence of Caste System: – The caste system as we know it today did not exist in the same form during the vedic period. The focus was more on the varNASrama system, which classified individuals based on their birth and associated duties (which involves some nithya and naimithika karmAnushtAnams to be performed). – The rigid caste system evolved later due to various societal changes, moving away from the more flexible varNASrama system originally intended.

4. bhagavAn’s acceptance of Inter-Caste Marriages within the same varNam: – bhagavAn values devotion, sincerity, and adherence to dharmam above all else. Marriages that respect these principles, even if they are inter-caste within the same varNam, are acceptable in the eyes of bhagavAn. – It is important to communicate and engage with elders and one’s own AchAryar to address their concerns while ensuring that the core principles of dharmam are upheld.

 

Addressing Vikram Swamy’s Observations:

1. Evolution of the Caste System: – The caste system’s refinement from the broader varNASrama system was a process influenced by socio-economic and historical contexts. This refinement aimed at maintaining specific roles and preserving traditions within communities. – While the varNASrama system was more fluid and broad, the caste system introduced more detailed classifications, sometimes leading to greater rigidity.

2. Marrying within Same Sect: – Historical practices of preferring marriages within the same sect (e.g., vadakalai and thenkalai within aiyangArs) were aimed at preserving specific religious practices and sampradhAyam. These practices were designed to ensure continuity and consistency in worship and community life.

3. Acknowledging Elders’ Wisdom: – Our elders’ decisions were guided by their deep understanding of dharmam and the socio-cultural context of their times. Their primary concern was the preservation of tradition and spiritual practices. – It is important to acknowledge their wisdom while also engaging in respectful dialogue to address contemporary challenges and societal changes.

 

Additional point:

As SrIvaishNavas, it is important to base our understanding and practices on the teachings of our AchAryas and scriptures. While other perspectives like those of Jaggi Vasudev may provide insights, they are not rooted in the SrIvaishNava tradition. Our guidance should come from the teachings of AzhwArs, AchAryas, and the rich scriptural heritage of SrIvaishNavam, which emphasizes bhakthi, dharmam, and adherence to spiritual practices as said by our pUrvAchAryas.

 

Conclusion:

In conclusion, while the societal focus has shifted to jAthi (caste), maintaining the broader varNASrama classifications remains essential. Inter-caste marriages within the same varNam are acceptable and align with the principles of varNASrama dharmam. Engaging in respectful dialogue with elders (especially one’s AchArya) and understanding the historical evolution of these practices can help navigate these complexities while honoring our traditions.

 

adiyEn hopes this provides clarity and addresses the concerns raised.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dhAsan.

on May 28, 2024

Adiyen swami 🙏🏼

on June 2, 2024

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Sri:
Swamy,

Dhanyosmi.

Adiyen would like to replacev “rigidity” to “convenience”.

Regarding Jaggi’s stuff apologies for quoting but Adiyen thought it was logical and made sense as we are trying to figure out the “Socio, economical & historical” roots.

“Epporul yAr yAr vAi kEtpinum ApporuL mei PoruL kANbadhu arivu”

Our Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy explains SoorpanakhA’s description of Sri Ram and Sri Lakshmanan to Ravana.

“TaruNow Roopa Sampannow sukumArow mahA bhalow Pundareeka VisAlAkshow Ksheera KrishnajinAbaroW”

She praised the duo. We did not discard just because she was SoorpanakhA.

Also we have VrithrAsurA an asuran doing sthothram to Vishnu in Srimath Bhagavatham.

We quote Maareechan way of looking at “Ra””Ma”.

We have Bhaktha PrahlAdA who was born as Asura.

How we classify who belongs to what roots ?

When we don’t have clear cut contemporary answers to existential questions nothing wrong in implementing logic to it and trying to find out sensible answers.

For example: My Guru Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy has told “Karma is anAdi”. I haven’t heard any other AchArya say it but it was logical.

“As AthmA is anAdi KarmA also should be anAdi.”

Also my beloved AchAryan Sri Rangaramanuja Mahadesika Swamy being Tamil school teacher has derived just before his holiness Paramapadam ascending

“Ayarvaru Amararin Adhipathi Yevanavan”

Based on Tamil grammar.

The original was

“Ayarvaru Amarargal Adhipathi Yevanavan”

What’s wrong in such derivations based onthe logic Swamy?

I don’t see anything wrong unless it is directly contradicting with our Sampradhayam.

Dasanudasan

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1 on June 3, 2024

SrI:

SrImathE SatkOpAya nama:

SrImathE rAmAnujAya nama:

SrImath varavaramunayE nama:

 

namaskAram vikram swAmy,

The suggestion to replace “rigidity” with “convenience” can be considered if it aligns with the idea that the caste system was structured to bring about a societal order and convenience in maintaining certain community roles. However, historical evidence shows that this rigidity often resulted in social stratification and inequality, which might not align with the original intent of varNASrama dharmam.

 

It is paramount to base our practices and understanding on the teachings of our AchAryas and scriptures. The insights of figures like Jaggi Vasudev may seem logical and contemporary, but they are not rooted in the SrIvaishNava tradition. Our guidance should come from the teachings of AzhwArs, AchAryas, and our rich scriptural heritage. This emphasizes the importance of adhering to the principles of bhakthi, dharmam, and spiritual practices as taught by our pUrvAchAryas. dhEvarIr’s response certainly highlights some valid points, particularly the openness to logic and sensible answers within the framework of our sampradhAyam. It is crucial to balance traditional wisdom with contemporary understanding, ensuring that we do not deviate from the core principles of SrIvaishNavam. The examples of SUrpanakha praising perumAL and iLaya perumAL, vrithrAsura’s stothram to vishNu, and other such instances show that wisdom can come from various sources, but it should be filtered through the lens of our sampradhAyam.

 

Addressing the Use of Logic in Interpretation:

Logic and rational interpretations have their place in understanding our scriptures and teachings, provided they do not contradict the core tenets of our sampradhAyam. Our AchAryas have also employed logical reasoning in their commentaries to explain and elaborate on scriptural teachings.

 

To summarize, while being open to contemporary logical interpretations, we must remain firmly grounded in the teachings of our AzhwArs and AchAryas. This ensures that our practices and understanding remain aligned with the SrIvaishNava tradition, fostering spiritual growth and community coherence.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dhAsan.

on June 4, 2024

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Sri:

Swamy,

Adiyen accept the fact but not principle nature which differs

“historical evidence shows that this rigidity often resulted in social stratification and inequality, which might not align with the original intent of varNASrama dharmam.”

The misunderstanding of classification is not the problem of classification..

It was for a specific purpose may be.

It’s like MBBS (VarNa). Then MD. For specialities (sub sects) Nephro, Cardio etc.

That’s why Udayavar brought up a revamp of our SriVaishnavite structure because it was grossly miss understood.

Purely quoting from incident of “Alavatta Kainkaryam Swamy” where the plankton leaf 🌿 (banana leaf) place was washed by Ramanujar’s Dharma pathni which was well inline with Dharma Shastra those days and may be even today!!!

Was the inner meaning really understood was the question?

As a BhAgavatha does that dharmam apply?

There is no straightforward right or wrong here. Dharma Sookshmam was not an easy task for Bhishma himself.

SAmAnya Dharmam vs VisESha Dharmam.

My father used to say when “Bhakthi sArar” Thirumazhisai Azhwar arrived Vedic pundits stopped the yagnya

When Azhwar about to leave, those pundits forgot where to resume.

Azhwar broke a piece of “nellu” (grain) and reminded where to resume.

My view:
Were Pundits correct in stopping the fire ritual?
May be yes as that’s what they were taught to maintain consistency in fire ritual and not to get distracted?

Well after learning Azhwar was highly qualified did pundits change their mind?

May be Yes and No. Who knows?

Simply knowledgeable does not mean one is qualified!? Today we appreciate only knowledge isn’t it?

Was Azhwar qualified to do fire ritual though he knows the meaning? Let’s Keep pondering…

Coming to teachings and practices we do have “PAta Bedham”.

Therefore we cannot say we all are aligned in the same manner as we expect us to be.

In fact “Kalai” itself is one such classification Vada Kalai & Then Kalai.

I will not say versus here. It is complimentary.

That’s why Adiyen said it’s not an easy task to appreciate such classifications.

As time goes by we may even forget reasons for such origin. Then again new question will arise of dharma sandeha

“Why we have Kalais”?

Dasanudasan

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