Learning new things

Updated on February 8, 2021 in General
11 on February 4, 2021

Srimate ramanujaya nama:

From childhood we learn many things, including objects, languages etc. Now if a child learns a new word does it means, the atman(which is in child’s body now) has “added one more thing” ie expanded its existing knowledge (dharma bhoota gyanam) or the “uncovered its hidden part of knowledge (dharma boota gyanam)” than
its existing state?

Beign said that atman has all the knowledge but its in dormant state right now due to karma sambandham. Which of above two will aptly fit?
Adiyen dasan.

 
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0 on February 4, 2021

Please forgive my errors and salutations to Sri Swamigal. 

My understanding as follows: Atman has all the knowledge all the time like a true diamond that is hidden in the soil which always shines as well. Only shortcoming is that it may not be aware of its true nature that it belongs to HIM and needs his karunai and kainkaryam which is the real dharma boota gyanam. Once through Acharyan krupai, we realize this, then even this is removed and Atman’s shine is visible all over.

adiyen

balaji

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Namaskaram swamins

Balaji Swami it’s true of what devarir mentioned, adiyen would like to add on to the eg of Diamond.

Seshadri swami, just like a diamond has natural effulgence to it similar is the case with each Jeevan with it’s Dharma Bhoota Gyanam and that’s why a jeevan is considered as Gyana-Ananda Swaroopan. When a diamond is covered with mud, it’s natural effulgence gets hid until it get cleansed, similarly for a jeevan is with it’s Dharma Bhoota Gyanam, as the Karmas reduces the gyanam ( effulgence) is displayed out. 

P.S 

Sometime back Adiyen heard an upanayasam of Krishnan Swami, where he mentions of, a jeevan in srivaikuntam with no karmas  attached could identify Azhwars and Acharyargal Jeeva too, does that mean the dharma bhoota gyanam is immeasurable and more divine to each jeevan. 

 

Adiyen

on February 4, 2021

Swamin

Very good highlight, Searching for your reference of “jeevan in srivaikuntam” I found this answer referrring back Swamin Upanyasams. 

  • Brahmanathvat:

Thannai Adaindhavargalai Thanakku Samamaaga Periyavargalaaga aakkugirapadiyaalum (தன்னை அடைந்தவர்களை தனக்கு சமமாக பெரியவர்களாக ஆக்குகிறபடியாலும்). One who worskships HIM with Pure devotion, HE makes them Saamyapathi (Equal to HIS Gunas) asn Samyapathi Moksham for Nithya Kainkaryam and Nithya Anubhavam.

As adiyen understand from swamin upanyasams, Jeevatma reaching Srivaikuntam attains the samypathi moksham where gets the 8 kalyana gunam similar to HIM.
1. apahathapApmA (unaffected by sin), 2.vijara: (unaffected by old age), 3. vishOka: (free from sorrow), 4. vimruthyu: (imperishable) 5. vijiDhathsa (no hunger) 6.apipAsa: (free from thirst), 7. sathyakAma: (lover of truth), 8. sathyasankalpa: (he who wills the truth)

except in power; for HE alone is the Great Cause of the universe (muktathma do not have the power to create, preserve or destroy the universe).

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2 on February 4, 2021

Thanks to all swamyies who has replied.. But adiyen’s question is very simply:
Complete manifestation of knowledge of atman and reaching emperuman. Thats the final goal, it is understandable.

But each and every perception/knowledge is experienced by atman thru inthriyams. So every new perception that one gets ie a new word, a new sight or anything in this regards; is that uncovering of “already existing” knowledge or a “entirely new” knowledge obtained? How to view this? Pl put your thoughts swamy.

Adiyen!

on February 5, 2021

Ok Adiyen’s simplest response, just as everything comes from HIM and goes back to be attached to HIM, knowledge also expands and then contracts into HIM, hence all perceptions just uncovers already existing knowledge. Perceptions about HIM and out relations to HIM as taught and show by our acharyas and as shared amongst themselves by Bhagavats like these, take us closer to HIM. Even those perceptions about the pancha boothas observed through our indriyas when we look at them as HIS body result in the same outcome.

on February 5, 2021

Adiyen

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Sheshadri swamy, namaskaram. Thank you for your question. I have been thinking about. Balaji swamy’s answer to your question based on Velukkudi Swamy’s upanyasams give us clarity.

Please permit me to share my understanding based on the disucssion so far. All the “Knowledge” is always there; because Perumal is always aware of it; there are many other souls who are aware of this ‘Knowledge’ even when I am not aware of it. At some point of time in my existence I become aware of this ‘Knowledge’ (eg. a word, or a skill etc.). And at a later time this ‘Knowledge’ disappears from my awareness (i.e. I forget). But the knowledge is always there…. there is someone else who is aware of that ‘Knowledge’; if no one else, atleast Perumal knows it!

An analogy: The eternal soul resides in this body. There is no change to the soul. But the matter that enters this body is always in a flux. New ‘food molecules’ enter the body; ‘old food molecules’ leave the body; ‘new water molecules’ enters the body; ‘old water molecules’ leave the body. So on. Always in a flux… as required by time, place and situations.

Similarly, the eternal Knowledge of Shesatvam to Bhagavaan always remains with the soul. But all other ‘knowledge’ can be in flux depending on the time, place and situations. If I need to know some Physics, Chemistry, Maths based on my current situations, my karma enables me to ‘in take’ this knowledge. And when it is not relevant, this ‘knowledge’ exits the system. But the core knowledge of one’s identity as a servant does not change; it always stays with the soul. When covered by our false identity, we remain servant of others; when we give up our false identity by acharya krpai, then we serve Perumal.

I am sharing this as a way to check my understanding; so if anything is inapprorpaite, kindly highlight. dhanyosmi.

adiyen dasan.

 

 

 

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Namaskaram Swami

What a coincidence today morning, Adiyen had the Bhagyam of hearing the same as read above of what kambandasan swami posted, in Upadesa rathina maalai Kalakshepam paasuram 60 for reference  dated ( 21/01/21).

Adiyen would like to share in the excerpt form ( The pasuram states the importance Acharyan Sambandam (Bhakti) always and in cases where there is only Bhagwad premam (Bhakti), it won’t last long. However, the sambandam which each jeevan has with thirumal will exist.

Only the Vishesha Abhimanam which bhagwan keeps over the realised jeevan is decreased and there isn’t any need/ Aasai to bhagwan to grant moksham to such a jeevan, ( Alika-vendi-iran) this word’s Artham. And the reason behind why each jeevan must have a bhakti towards Acharyan is because: As kambandasan swami stated above)

 

1 All the “Knowledge” is always there; there are many other souls who are aware of this ‘Knowledge’ even when I am not aware of it (Acharyan)’

2. At some point of time in my existence I become aware of this ‘Knowledge’ (eg. a word, or a skill etc.). And at a later time this ‘Knowledge’ disappears from my awareness (i.e. I forget). But the knowledge is always there…. there is someone else who is aware of that ‘Knowledge’;(Acharyan )

3 The core knowledge of one’s identity as a servant does not change; it always stays with the soul. ( Nava Vida Sambandam of each jeevan with Bhagwan). 

 

Adiyen Dasan

 

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Ramanuja Parakalan swamy, namaskaram.

Thank you very much for sharing.

I would like to place a clarifiction on what I had originally meant, so that no undue significance is given to what I had stated.

As per the understanding I had expressed, all knowledge that describe our sheshstvam with Perumal and our services to Him, are all “Para-jnana”. The para-jnana eternally remains with the souls. In the material existence we are covered with our false identity; by following the guidance and instructions of acharyan, we are able to get rid of the covering, and the original para-jnana is fully manifest.

In contrast, all the ‘knowledge’ related to practical existence in this world, ‘apara-jnana’, are in a flux. Come and go. When I am in a lion’s body, I have the knowledge to hunt; in a a deer’s body I have knowledge to run away; in a rat’s body knowledge to smell food from a long distance, as a doctor to administer the right medicine, and so on. When the identity changes, the set of apara-jnana also changes. This set of knowledge not necessarily comes from our acharyan.

This is my current understanding.

adiyen dasan. 

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True swami. The above excerpt mentioned above is to do with Para-gyanam.

Nevertheless, a thought crossed by, as In  a manushya shareeram even to do normal acts inclined to what shastras say for eg satyam Vada Dharmam Chara…. all these even is made understood or aware to a jeevan by an Acharyan only. But it could be countered as Dharmam and satyam like things which shastras prescribe to follow though are inclined to get Adrishta Phalam again Para Gyanam. However, they are also relatable to live a joyous and a peaceful life by following the same in material life, is it not??

Adiyen 

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0 on February 8, 2021

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha,

Swamis, the latest posts on what constitutes knowledge corroborates well with scriptural understanding. I post below one of the apt references from 13th chapter of Bhagavat Geeta verses 8-12.

“amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanaṁ śaucaṁ sthairyam ātma-vinigrahaḥ
indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam anahaṅkāra eva ca janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi- duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam
asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam iṣṭāniṣṭopapattiṣu mayi cānanya-yogena
bhaktir avyabhicāriṇī vivikta-deśa-sevitvam aratir jana-saṁsadi 
adhyātma-jñāna-nityatvaṁ tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam etaj jñānam iti proktam ajñānaṁ yad ato ’nyathā”
“Humility; pridelessness; nonviolence; tolerance; simplicity; approaching a bona fide spiritual master; cleanliness; steadiness; self-control; renunciation of the objects of sense gratification; absence of false ego; the perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and disease; detachment; freedom from entanglement with children, wife, home and the rest; even-mindedness amid pleasant and unpleasant events; constant and unalloyed devotion to Me; aspiring to live in a solitary place; detachment from the general mass of people; accepting the importance of self-realization; and philosophical search for the Absolute Truth – all these I declare to be knowledge, and besides this whatever there may be is ignorance.”
 
So these are part and parcel of soul and uncovered as we take help of Bhagawan through Acharya’s instructions.
The other worldly aspects of learning are useful only to maintain our body and soul together until we unpack the knowledge in soul, so these other aspects what we learn are information and not knowledge.
 
Adiyen
Thirukachidaasanudasan
 
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