Swamy!

Pls. forgive me if this doesn’t convince you. I am trying to reply from Swamigal’s this as well as other Divya Pravachanams.

Bhaghawan had to show His Viswaroopa Dharshanam to convince Arjuna to do his duty – to proceed with the Gurushethra war and to conquer the Adharma forces. Though Arjuna pleaded to Bhaghawan to have glimpse of His Viswaroopa Dharshanam, it is not because of his real willingness to attain Motscha or Bhaghwan’s lotus feet wholeheartedly. 

Also, after the Gurushethra war was over, Arjuna never conveyed his intention to reach Bhaghavan’s/attain Moktsha- Thats why Bhaghawan Krishna was sad for this- Arjuna never requested/pleaded Bhaghwan Sri Krishna to take him to Sri Vaikunta instead he wished to reach Swarkam.

This is what I understood.

Adiyean Ramanuja Dhasan Srinivasan.

Dhanyosmi Swami,

Attaching here the Vijay TV Tamil Mahabharat Bhaghawan’s Geethapadosam dialogues link. Here you can see how Bhaghavan is trying to convince Arjuna. You can parts 1 to 4.

Adiyean.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=982m5xatT98

Attaching here the Vijay TV Tamil Mahabharat Bhaghawan’s Geethapadosam dialogues link. Here you can see how Bhaghavan is trying hard to convince Arjuna. You can also hear parts 1,2&4.

Sorry, link was missing. Here it is for part 4 about Samarpanam.

Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,

Asmadh Sarva Gurubyo Namaha,

Dear Bhakta’s,

Very True as why Arjuna didnot get Moksham, since Arjuna Didnot ask for it, though he got Vishwaroopam sevai.

============================================

Sri Velukkudi Swami himself has said that Swami’s Pravachanams are not Swami’s own teachings looking at different angles. 

Sri Velukkudi Swami says, the “Shastra/Veda Maargam” teachings that Swami Ramanujar showed us in a simplified (understandable form) is called as “Oran Vazhi Guru Paramparai” Teachings also known as “Vaazhai adi Vaazhai adi” paramparai. Vaazhai means banana tree. A new kandru (Vazhai) starts growing closer to the exisitng banana tree and when the kandru grows big, the exisitng one perishes. But ‘Quality’ of the new kandru is same as the one that perished. Same way, through “Oran Vazhi Guru Paramparai” Acharyas, the quality of teachings is followed from One Acharya to another Acharya and so on “WITHOUT ANY ASSUMPTIONS” (Shastrathil Ulladhu Ullapadiyae solluvadhu), because the PradhamaAcharyan is GeethAcharyan SriKrishna and the teachings continued through Swami Ramanujar till Asmad (Present) Acharyan and delivered to us via Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami’s pravachanams and Anugraham.

Please listen to Swami’s SHaranagathy Upanyasam CD. Adiyen tried to put breifly in the Dharma Sandhea as well in the past.

https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/bakthi-yoga-vs-prapatti/  

SriKrishna offers only two Margams for Moksham as per Shastras.

1) Karma-Gyana-Bhakthi Yoga Margam

*  Means Saadhyopayam –> Seidhu Seidhu Phalatthai Anubavitthal.

* Takes many Janmas to reach Moksham

* Upayam (Means to Moksham) is Our Efforts (Japam/Thapam/Yogam) which is against Jeevathma Swaroopam, since JeevAtham Swaroopam is Shshatvam (Adimai Thanam to Perumal-Thayar)

* Upayem (Destination) is reaching Sriman NarayanAn lotus feet.

2) Sharanagathy Margam

* Means Siddhopayam –> Vilagi Vilagi Phalatthai Anubhavitthal.

* Upayam (Means to Moksham) is Sriman NarayanAn ThiruvAdi, which is IN-LINE Jeevathma Swaroopam (Shestatvam/Parathatriyam). ThiruvAdi is nothing but the lineage of Alwars/Acharyas. NamAlwar si Perumal ThiruvAdi and inturn NamALwar ThiruvAdi is Madhurakavi Alwar & Swmai Ramanuajar and the lineage flows down till Vardhamana (Present) Acharyas.

* Upayem (Destination) is reaching Sriman NarayanAn lotus feet.

In Sharanagathy, both Upayam & Upeyam is Sriman NarayanAn’s lotus feet.

============================================

a) The whole BhagavAt Gita is about the former case 1) type Karma-Gyana-Bhkathi yoga MArgam, BhagavAn SriKrishna TALKS LESS about the 2) type SharangatHy Margam to Arjuna only in few slokas as “Sarva Dharman Paridhyeja…etc…. and then goes back to 1) type Margam, since Arjuna was intestered in this type of Margam, sicne He likes doing things liek Japam/Yogam isntead of Falling on SriKrishna lotus feet. So, BHagavAn was catering Arjuna based on his Viruppam (interests).

b) Any warrior who dies in a battle filed goes to the temperory place Swargam and return back to Bhoomi once the punya karma is relinguished. Thats why even Dhuryodhana went to Swargam as well. But, after taking Human birth again in Bhoolokam, he will have to to expreince the Prarabtha karma (paapa karma) that he did during his Mahabharat birth, unless He follows any of these two paths for Moksham and lead a good life.

c) SriKrishna also showed Vishwaroopam to another Maharishi “Udhangar”, but Udhangar rishi didnot reach MOksham in that birth as well, since he is in the 1) margam Japam/Thapam/Yogam.

d) That’s why Alwars Paasurams doesn’t focus on type 1) Margam, instead it all talks about type 2) Sharanagathy Margam

THiruVai Mozhi 6.10:

agalakillEn iRaiyum’ endRu AlarmEl mangai yuRaimaar_paa, nigaril pugazhaay! ulagamoon Rudaiyaay! ennai aaLvaanE, nigaril amarar munikkaNangaL virumpum thiruvEng kadaththaanE, pugal ondrum illaa adiyEnun adikkeezh amaRndhu pugundhEnE. 

“adikkeezh amaRndhu pugundhEnE” is the Sharanagathy at Sriman Narayan Lotus Feet. EASIEST PATH to MOKSHAM through an Acharya ThiruvAdi.

After Sharanagthy, what to do is explained in:

ThiruVai Mozhi 3.3.1

“Ozhivil Kaalam yellAm udanAi manni vazhuvilA adimaiseyya VeNDum nAmm….”.We should perform Kaimkaryams for the Lord for the Kaimkaryam’s sake alone.

d) Thats why Alwars Paasurams doesn’t focus on type 1) Margam, instead it all talks about type 2) Sharanagathy Margam, the easiest path through Acharya Samasrayanam for Moksham and Nithya Kainkaryam.

==================================

Aazhndha Arthangalayum, Anugrahathayum namakku Thandhu arulum,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam,

Thayar-Perumal-Alwar-Emperumanaar-Jeeyar-Acharyar Thiruvadigalaey Sharanam,

KuzhaPatthil Irundha Arjunanai, BhagavAt Gitaiyai  solli, Mealum Kuzhappiya SriKrishna BhagavAn ki Jai,

KuzhaPatthil Irundha Adiyargalai, Thelivu padutthiya Alwar-Acharyas ki Jai.

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu 

Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruvae Namaha,

Dear Srinivasa Pranesh Bhakta,

Adiyen couldn’t digest when Bhakta said about Swami as “This is not to find fault in Devarir’s speech”. So adiyen had to explain based on adiyen’s understanding from upanyasam about Oran Vazhi GuruParamparai teachings though adiyen is imperfect . Adiyens purpose was to say that “Swami’s Speech is ALWAYS flawless” and we should have no doubht about it.

Adiyen apologize for adhika prasangethanam.

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam,
Thayar-Perumal-Alwar-Emperumanaar-Jeeyar-Acharyar Thiruvadigalaey Sharanam,
Sarvam SriKrishna Kudumbham.

Dhasanu Dhasan!

Very good and detailed explanation.

Swamigal often mentions (in his pravachanams) that we, Sri Vaishnavites – are fortunate that we are safely under the shade/umbrella of Bhaghawat Ramanuja and hence enjoying the crystal clear path for Motsham; whereas the common people (who do not have the Aathma Ghana)on the streets are entangled in this Maya world, confused on whom to hold and thus going from one Devathanthra to other yearning for their comfortable life in this world (Khamya palan) , fighting for survival etc.,

They are completely unaware of, and not having the Ghana, that we shall to attempt to understand the purpose of  this birth and the need to attain Bhaghawan’s lotus feet via Acharyars.

Hence, as Sri Vaishnavites, we should never attempt to miss or get off from this Bhaghawath Ramanuja bus that takes us straight to Sri Vaikunta. 

Adiyean,

Ramanuja Dhasan Srinivasan.

Humble respects and offering to Velukudi Swamy

Namaskaram!

I have a different doubt regarding this audio. It may seem out of context for many who have been discussing earlier. But I have heard earlier (from other sources of other sampradayas) that Arjuna is eternally liberated soul, just playing the role of an ordinary human for pleasure for Krishna and to impart lessons for mankind.

Is it so that Arjuna like Hanumanji is liberated but not going to vaikunta as whenever or wherever the Lord goes to perform vibhavam, he accompanies him, so in principle he is liberated but physically he is not in vaikunta realm. 

Swami, I am just expressing the perspective i have heard before. I am not in full /complete knowledge to understand the different perspectives. So please clarify how to understand this perspective without contradicting the other perspectives.

Please kindly forgive if the question seems offensive

Sivanand

Namaskaram swamiji,
Why arjun didnot get moksham? He was the only a person who was with Krishna throught out his life.
He was liked by krishna more than any panchapandavas. But he didntot get moksham. When Arjuna did not get moksham,how we will get moksham?
Swamji often tells in his lecture daily do thruvaradanam,chant VSN,and Tiruppavavai will get u moksham. But in the case of arjun who was praying always Krishna didnot get moksham.How u can say that we can attain moksham very easily. Then another story is that Ajamilan has attained moksham by uttering the Narayana at his death bed. Both the things are contrary to each other. Arjuna did not get moksham who was always with krishna. But ajamilan got moksham by uttering one word Narayana by fear of seeing the yamadothas.
So our stories are contradictory with each other.
Secondly ,what is the pramanam that our acharyas attained mukti? By seeing all these things you required some extra quality to attain moksham that is Ganam. We shld do the athyanam of vedas and shastras then only we can attain moksham. I request swamiji should clqrify the doubt.

Bv viswanathan

Namaskaarams to all.

Let Adiyen give my learnings from Upanishads. May not be of like to all but Adiyen is not saying anything of my own. May Shri Velukkudi Swamy forgive Adiyen if something is wrong and give right interpretation.

The bliss in Moksha is not common to all as we think. Muktikopanishad, preached by Lord Shri Rama to Lord Hanuman states four grades of Mukti.

Rama says, Kaivalya Mukti that is liberation from birth and death is common to all grades. But, based on Sadhana they do during life time, there are four grades of Mukti attained afterlife.

Let me explain it from least to best order. Based on the grade a soul attains, the distance from God, level of bliss everything varies.

1. Saloka Mukti – Even when worst of sinners get devotion on Lord, reform themselves and chant Rama nama, they also don’t get into birth and death but reach Lord Sriman Narayana only.

2. Sarubhya Mukti – When any soul dies at Kashi, which is Brahma Naadi of world, Lord Maheswaran appears before Jiva and chants Rama Taraka Mantra in right ear of Jiva. All sins of Jiva on hearing Rama Taraka Mantra burns without remains and the Jiva attains Lord Sriman Narayana.

3. Saameebhya Mukti – A twice born, when follows all Karmanushtana as per Saastras and performs all duties without fail attains Saameebhya Mukti.

4. Sayujya Mukti – A twice born, who follows Upadesa of his Acharyan and sees Sriman Narayana as Antaryami of all Jivas right from Brahma to a worm attains Sayujya Mukti, which is the highest order of bliss. He attains Lord through Brahma-Keeta Nyaya. Brahma means four faced God and Keeta means worm.

Note: Understanding everything as Brahmam and debating only Brahmam exists is erraneous knowledge. Right knowledge that leads to Sayujya Mukti is understanding the differences between Lord Sriman Narayana and other Jiva/Jada but at the same time seeing Lord Narayana as Antaryami or functioning agent of all, without the presence of whom, nothing will be functioning here.

Now, it is obvious that one can see Narayana as indweller of all by attaining knowledge through Bagavad Gita, Vedanta Sutras, Upanishads etc. Otherwise, it may be orally possible but not practical.

Hence, it is clear that Aparoksha Gnana is an essential quality of highest bliss in Moksha. But, what is the use of Gnana without Bakthi?

More the level of Gnana, more will be the level of Bakthi, understanding Supremacy of Lord Sriman Narayana. Bakthi in multiple folds is proportionate to Gnana we attain.

Then why surrender is essential and prescribed as first step?

It is the means of securing success in our path. If we practise Gnana and Bakthi without surrender, responsibility lies with ourselves and we may fail. But, surrender is the best means to put the burden of saving us from Samsara on Lord and proceed with the means of liberation. Attempts to develop Bakthi and Gnana doesn’t seize on surrender but will make us risk free. We shall keep earning Gnana and Bakthi as much as possible even after surrender. In fact, real unshaken surrender is possible only after attainment of Gnana and Bakthi to certain level.

Hence, there is no doubt that attaining Atma Gnana is an essential element to attain highest level of bliss.

However, point to note is that, all four grades are liberated only and they are in association with Lord only.

Coming to Arjuna, though he had Vishwaroopa Darshanam, he could not completely give up his Ahankaram. After war, he expected Krishna to get down and welcome him as charioteer. Further, his wish was not to attain Vaikunta. He started ruling the kingdom after war. God always gives opportunity to Vaikunta to his devotees but it is helpless condition when Jiva is not ready to take it.

Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanam!