Doubts on En Pani 1522 – Azhwars and Acharyas

Updated on October 6, 2020 in Azhwars
11 on October 8, 2019

Dear Swamy after listening En Pani 1522 certain doubts are arising and needing clarification from you.

1) If azhwars do not show interest as devareer said then how come Nammazhwar appeared when Nathamunigal fervently recited Kanninun Siruthambu( If I am right ).

2) Next, Vedantha Desikar, in most of his stothrams on nityasuris like garuda, sudarshana( as you know ) has invoked them in Phala Shruthi to bless the devotees. For example in Sudharshana Ashtakam, he says “All your desires will be fulfilled due to the glorious boon granting powers of Sudharshana”. This appears to be a contradiction.

3) Next, if I remeber correctly and if I am right Vedhantha Desikar meditated on garuda in one of the famous hills and garuda is said to have appeared before him and blessed him.
Then how to take this incident swamy? Are these exceptions?

4) Ambarisha Charithram

Pl forgive adiyen if I had asked something wrongly. Requesting you to clarify. Are these exceptions?

One more question – This is not related to the topic but is on Vaikuntam. How come Garuda get hungry and consequently become angry in Vaikuntam when such things don’t exist there. Adiyen referring to that incident when perumal showed his paratvam to garuda.

Kindly take mercy ( as you always )on adiyen and clarify these things swamy.

Adiyen

 
  • Liked by
Reply
4 on October 9, 2019

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

Namaskaram Swami,

Regarding “One more question…….Garuda get hungry”…on Sumukan snake happened in “Karya Vaikuntam a.k a Santhanikam lokam” which is inside LEELA VIBHOOTHI/Samsaram  (Above Sathya lokam but below “Virajai Nadhi”, and this incident didnot happen in “NITHYA VIBHOOTHI (SRI VAIKUNTAM) which is beyond Virajai nadhi. Swami says this incident Garuda getting hungry and then getting angry on Sumukan snake, is to portray the worst side of Samsaram, that we Bhaddhatmas get angry when our desires are not fullfilled. So we have to get out of this Samsaram with Acharya Krupai.

 

This question goes back to similar question of Dwara plakargal getting shaapam etc posted in another thread….https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/swamy-is-there-real-feeling-me-and-body-different/

which actually happened in Karya Vaikuntam and NOT in SriVaikuntam, since SriVaikuntam is “Suddha Satvam (no Rajas and no Tamas gunas, only Satva guna) with NO Hunger, with NO Ageing/disease, NO Karmas and only 100% BhagavAt Anubhavam and Kainkaryam, where as Leela Vibhoothi/Samsaram is “Mishra Satvam (mixture of Rajas,Tamas,Satva Gunas) WITH KARMAS, AVIDHYA, AHANKARAM and MAMAKARAM. So it is no wonder that all these odd incident’s happen in Leela Vibhoothi (either in Karya Vaikuntam or any other andams/lokams) and it never happens in SRIVAIKUNTAM.

 

Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami explains beautifully in Enpani #500 “Santhanikam or Karya Vaikuntam”.

https://www.kinchit.org/kinchit-en-pani/451-500/

 

Adiyen Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.

on October 9, 2019

Dear ElayaAlwar swamy,
Thank you very much for clarifying. Please forgive adiyen’s misconception that the incident took place in Vaikuntam. Adiyen was ignorant. Nice to read what you have said. Want to know more about Sanathanika lokam. Will listen to that audio.

Thank you,
Adiyen

No contradiction. All the instances are for very exalted Acharyas on specific performance. They won’t happen as a routine.

on October 10, 2019

Firstly, Dhanyosmi Swamy for taking the time to answer this adiyen’s question. I am trying to reflect on what you have said. Is this observation correct Swamy? – ‘ Nityasuris/Muktatmas do not generally show interest in our activities but when they are dictated to do so either by Bhagavan as in the case of asking Ramanujar to decide whom to give moksham in this yuga (or) like in the case of Vedantha Desikar asking Sudharshanar to bless devotees they(nityasuris) do so as it is a command of exalted Acharyas/Bhagavan himself. Also equivalently when such great souls themselves pray to the nityasuris they appear/bless them ‘ Please again clarify Swamy. Can some other devotee please explain in case Swamy might be busy.

Adiyen.

on December 29, 2019

Could someone please clarify whether adiyen’s observation is correct or not? Velukkudi swamy might be busy. So requesting someone else.

The thing that confuses me is in this Kali Yuga, as we know, bhagavan has given Ramanujar the role of taking care of nithya vibuthi and leela vibuthi. Then does Ramanujar look into our activities…like when we pray him, etc

Show more replies
  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel
0 on October 10, 2019

Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami Thiruvadigalaey Sharanam.

Swami has answered in this thread for the questions 1 through 4.
?

Adiyen Charamavathi Dasan.

  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel
2 on September 26, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Asmadh Sarva Gurubyo Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami ThiruvAdiyil adiyen DhandavAt Pranaamam,

 

Namaskaram Ram Swami,

 

With Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Sri Velukkudi Swami’s Aasirvadham, adiyen will share answer for devareer’s additional questions,

For the 1st part of additional question:

“Is this observation correct Swamy? – ‘ Nityasuris/Muktatmas do not generally show interest in our activities…………..etc..etc………….Can some other devotee please explain in case Swamy might be busy”.

ANS: Yes, devareer’s understanding is correct same as Sri Velukkudi Swami’s above thread answer.

For the 2nd part of additional question:

“…………………The thing that confuses me is in this Kali Yuga, as we know, bhagavan has given Ramanujar the role of taking care of nithya vibuthi and leela vibuthi. Then does Ramanujar look into our activities…like when we pray him, etc…….”

ANS: Yes, Swami Ramanujar Looks into our Activities, but there is a CLAUSE to be added that “Ramanujar Looks in to Sharanagathas Activities ONLY & not for everyone”, and that Sharanagathan can be anyone who has done PanchSamskaram or anyone without PanchaSamskaram who has Surrendered themselves by MIND on Lotus Feet of Swami Ramanuajar through 18ways of Swami RamanujAr Sambhandham.

This type of Swami Ramanujar’s Kalyana Gunam is called ”Thadutthu AatKollum Thanmai (தடுத்து ஆட்கொள்ளும் தன்மை)” means Swami will STOP/BLOCK us when we deviate from improving AthmaGunam/Kainkaryam/Moksham which is the PRIMARY PURPOSE OF LIFE based on BhagavAn SriKrishna’s Creation Theory, where as BhagavAn SriKrishna WILL NOT STOP us when we deviate from the above said, due to to the fact that BhagavAn has given us Shastras, Vedas, Puranas, Ithihaasas etc….and HE Expects us to use our Freedom/FreeWill” (Jeeva Swathantriyam, which actually means independence with dependence on BhagavAn) and act accordingly and follow correct path. This is dangerous situation, since if one misuses their Freedom/Freewill due to their Vaasanaas/Karmas or due to bad freindship, then it is not good for themselves and it can affect the surrounding people as well. We can see a lot of these things in this Samsaram.

Where as:

CASE1: Swami Ramanujar will STOP/BLOCK a Sharanagathan if we deviate using our Freedom/Freewill.

CASE2: Also, Swami will also STOP/BLOCK a “Future Sharanagathan” if they deviate using their Freedom/Freewill, only if the “Future Sharanagathan” is in Relation with a True Sharanagathan”.

Both CASE1 & CASE2 examples are seen in “CharamOpaya NirnayAm Grantham” written by PeriyavAchan Pillai Swami’s Swikara Puthran (Adopted Son) “NayanArAchan Pillai Swami” as said by Sri Velukkudi Swami and other SriVaishanava Upanyasakars.

CASE1 example:

There are 74 SimhasanaPathigal that Swami Ramanujar has initiated to get HIS Sambhandham for Moksham in SAME BIRTH. One of the Simhasana Pathi Acharyan is Swami KidambhiAchan, whose lineage is Swami Vedanta Desikan and other branches within the sect.

One time Swami Ramanujar was doing Thadhi Aaradhana (food feast prasadham) to all the Temple Kainakarya Bhaktas. During that time, one of the Bhakta asked for water due to hick-ups while eating Prasadham and everyone were sitting on ground in different rows while having food. Since KidambhiAchan was busy taking care of serving water in Kindi (Jug) to many Bhaktas, Swami ran immediately to the bhakta who was in need of water and asked the Bhakta to open mouth, so Swami could pour water directly on Bhakta’s mouth to stop the hick-up. However due to many crowded bhaktas around, KidambhiAchan Swami couldn’t stand straight infront of the bhakta to pour water, rather Swami was standing at an angle and was stretching the water jug while the Bhakta was twisting His head towards the jug opening with difficulty. At that time, Swami Ramanuajr who was monitoring How Thadhi Aaradhanai is ging on, noticed the bhakta struggling with His head to get Water. Immedietly Swami Ramanujar ran fast and gave a Big Pat (forceful) with UdayavAr’s big Hands on KidambhiAchan Swami’s back which made a loud noise (தாரை தப்பட்டை sound) and everyone were Awestruck by seeing Swami Ramanujar’s action.

 

SO, Swami Ramanujar will STOP/BLOCK a Sharanagathan if we deviate using our Freedom/Freewill.

 

CASE2 example:

From CharamopAya Nirnayam, Once a pious SriVishnavite in SriRangam had a rogue son who did not involve in Sampradhayam activities like his father and was involved in gambling, drinks, club etc….at that time. So his father was really sad that how will my son get EmperumAn (BhagavAn Sriman NarayanA) Anugraham. Here we need to understand that, BhagavAn will not correct his son until his son utilizes his JeevaSwathantriyam and start doing atleast one or some Sath activities, then BHagvAn will support to uplift, but  BHagavAN expects the first good action from us, sicne BHagavAN has both Krupai and Kopam. But Swami RamanujAr has only Krupai and NO Kopam, and Swami RamanujAR believes in HIS Karunai and not on our effort. That’s why AcharyAn Swami RamanujAR is one step ahead of BHagavAN though BHagavAn is the one who gave us Swami RamanujAr. So when Swami RamanujAr heard about the SriVaishnavas sons behavioral issue, ordered HIS Shisyas to forcefully bring that SriVaishnavaite son infront of HIM. Then Swami RamanujAr without that guy’s permission, put HIS ThiruvAdi on that guy’s head and did PanchaSamskaram for that guy’s Athma UjjivanAm. The guy was ashamed on his past club activities and stopped going there, but his vaasanaa didnot leave him when he saw his old immoral friends, he started going to club again. Swami RamanujAr heard about this incident, and instead of sending HIS sisyas again, SWami with HIS Thridhandam walked to the club. Here we need to understand, “will a Thrithanda Sanyasi go to ac club to correct some guy, we know no one will go. but Swami RamanujAr did because the guy’s father was a great SriVAishnavaite and Sambhandhi of Swami RamanujAr, so Swami RamanujAR never leaves HIS Sambhandhi’s sambhandhi (in this case the guy) to go rogue.

 

So Swami RamanujAr will also STOP/BLOCK a “Future Sharanagathan” if they deviate using their Freedom/Freewill, only if the “Future Sharanagathan” is in Relation with a True Sharanagathan”.

 

This type of Swami Ramanujar’s Kalyana Gunam is called Thadutthu AatKollum Thanmai (தடுத்து ஆட்கொள்ளும் தன்மை)” means Swami will STOP/BLOCK us when we deviate from improving AthmaGunam/Kainkaryam/Moksham.

 

So Swami RamanujAr Sambhandhis (Ram Swami or any Sambhandhis or Swami RamanujAr) need not worry since Sri Velukkudi SriKrishnan Swami is  already exhibiting the Thadutthu AatKollum Thanmai (தடுத்து ஆட்கொள்ளும் தன்மை) Kalyana Gunam.

 

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Thiruvadigalaey Sharanam,

Acharyan Thiruvadigalaey Sharanam,

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddAcharya) Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu

on September 26, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

In the CASE2 example, the names are as follows.

“The pious SriVasihnavaite (Utthama Vaishnava)” name is “RajaMahendra Perumal Arayar”,
“His Rogue son (Dhuracharan)” name is “Aranga Maligai” who got corrected by Swami Ramanujar’s Kalyana Gunam “Thadutthu AatKollum Thanmai (தடுத்து ஆட்கொள்ளும் தன்மை)” and he got Moksham in same birth due to Swami Ramanujar’s Krupai.

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.

on September 26, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

In CASE1 example, the question that will raise is, how KidambhiAchan Pillai Swami deviated from His freewill. Is giving water at an angle a crime?, may be NO, we know that, but we need to understand KidambhiAchan Pillai Swami’s own statement from CharamaopayA Nirnayam Grantham. After Swami Ramanujar gave a big sounding pat on KidambhiAchan Pillai Swami’s back, Swami left the Kindi (Jug) on ground and ran from the spot crying. Other shisyas tried to comfort KidambhiAchan Pillai Swami, but Swami said “I’m crying because when I was doing small mistakes in many past janmas, BhagavAn SriKrishna didnot stop me from doing it rather HE was exhibiting HIS “Udhaseenatham” gunam by expecting me to do correct things using my Jeeva Swathantriyam, but Swami RamanujAr is not like BhagavAn, rather Swami corrected me Instantly when I did a small mistake by exhibiting Swami Ramanujar’s Kalyana Gunam “Thadutthu AatKollum Thanmai (தடுத்து ஆட்கொள்ளும் தன்மை)”, so Swami Ramanujar ThiruvAdi Haley Thanjam.

Hence CASE1 :

Swami Ramanujar will STOP/BLOCK a Sharanagathan if we deviate using our Freedom/Freewill.

Adiyen missed to explain this above thread so adding it.

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan

Show more replies
  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel
1 on October 4, 2020

Swami,

Thank you swamy for the very good explanation. Really good that you remembered and I got the answer( even though after one year exactly ). Doubts are cleared now.

Adiyen

on October 6, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Dhanyosmi Ram Swami for the understanding based on devareer’s Acharya Krupai. Also with Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami’s Aasirvadham, Adiyen initially drafted the answered in a word document same timing back in Oct’2019 half way up to CASE1 for devareer’s further query, but for some reason Adiyen couldn’t post answer at that time, may be Adiyen got drifted to other threads or other Kainkaryams and forgot about it. Recently Adiyen was going through folders and Adiyen found the past Draft word document upto CASE1, so Adiyen completed the CASE2 answer now from Velukkudi Swami’s Upanyasams relevant to the thread and posted it. Adiyen is glad to hear that the post was helpful to devareer.

 

FDI, if devareer remember or not, In the past we also had another set of conversations in this thread for devareer’s question “Can I reach Moksham earlier”

https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/can-i-attain-moksha-earlier/

 

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.

Show more replies
  • Liked by
Reply
Cancel
Loading more replies