Doubt of time line of events

Updated on July 10, 2019 in Azhwars
9 on December 24, 2018

Namaskaram Swamy!

I have some doubts on timelines of certain events. Not sure if my understanding is correct. Kindly excuse me for mistakes and request your clarification –

1. It is said that Swamy Nammazhwar was born just 45 days after Lord Krishna completed his avatharam and left for Sri Vaikuntham.

2. Srimad Bhagavatham predicts the birth of azhwars in the sloka “kvachith kvachith mahabhagaaha”.

My doubt is –

When was Bhagavatam written by Vedavyasa? Was Nammazhwar already born during that time? Also, first 3 azhwars must have lived even before Bhagavatham, in that case. If it is so, then Bhagavatham’s slokam as mentioned in Point 2 above will not be a prediction of future.

Or did the events in Point 1 and point 2 happened in different chaturyuga / kalpa cycles?

Thank you and namaskarams!!

 
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1 on December 24, 2018

Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

Swamin,
Adiyen will try to make an attempt to answer from what adiyen heard from Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy’s Upanyasams.

Lord Krishna went back to Srivaikundam at the end of actual Dwapara yuga and Nammazhwar appeared at the beginning of actual Kali yuga. In between there was sandhi kalam (Uttara Dwapara yuga and Poorva Kaliyuga of 1,08,000 years)

Yuga ages in earth are as below
Poorva Kali Yuga – 36,000 years
Actual Kali Yuga – 3,60000 years
Uttara Kali Yuga – 36,000 years

Dwapara yuga age is twice that of Kali yuga
Poorva Dwapara Yuga – 72,000 years
Actual Dwapara Yuga – 7,20000 years
Uttara Dwapara Yuga – 72,000 years

Tretha yuga age is thrice that of Kali yuga
Poorva Tretha Yuga – 1,08,000 years
Actual Tretha Yuga – 10,80000 years
Uttara Tretha Yuga – 1,08,000 years

Kratha yuga age is four times that of Kali yuga
Poorva Kratha Yuga – 1,44,000 years
Actual Kratha Yuga – 14,40000 years
Uttara Kratha Yuga – 1,44000 years

Total Chathur yuga – 43,20,000 years (the time measurement is of human years)
(This was explained briefly in 2018 kinchitkaram calendar as well.)

Chatur yuga cycle is as below

Actual Kratha Yuga – – > Kratha Tretha sandhi (Uttara Kratha Yuga & Poorva Tretha Yuga) – – > Actual Tretha Yuga – – > Tretha Dwapara sandhi (Uttara Tretha Yuga & Poorva Dwapara Yuga) – – > Actual Dwapara Yuga –> Dwapara Kali sandhi(Uttara Dwapara Yuga & Poorva Kali Yuga) –> Actual Kali Yuga –> Kali Kratha sandhi ( Uttara Kali Yuga & Poorva Kratha Yuga) – – > again Actual Kratha Yuga

Mahabharatha, an ithihasa was written at the time when Lord Krishna was in the boolokam
Lord Krishna left the boolokam at the end of actual Dwapara Yuga.
Vyasacharya must have written Srimad Bhagavatam and Sukaacharyar must have given that to Parikshit maharaja during the beginning of Dwapara Kali sandhi (i.e. Uttara Dwapara Yuga & Poorva Kali Yuga)
From Guruparampara we can understand that muthalaazhwargal and Thirumazhisaiaazhwar appeared towards the end of
Dwapara Kali sandhi (i.e. Uttara Dwapara Yuga & Poorva Kali Yuga).
Hope this clarifies Bhagavatam was written way before Aazhwar’s Avatharam and hence it was written in future tense while referring to Aazhwar’s Avatharangal in 11th canto 5th chapter slokas 38 to 40.

kṛtādiṣu prajā rājan
 kalāv icchanti sambhavam
kalau khalu bhaviṣyanti
 nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ
kvacit kvacin mahā-rāja
 draviḍeṣu ca bhūriśaḥ

tāmraparṇī nadī yatra
 kṛtamālā payasvinī
kāverī ca mahā-puṇyā
 pratīcī ca mahā-nadī

ye pibanti jalaṁ tāsāṁ
 manujā manujeśvara
prāyo bhaktā bhagavati
 vāsudeve ’malāśayāḥ

Adiyen,
Ramanujadasan

on December 24, 2018

Srimathe ramanujaya namaha!

Thank you so much for the clarification, Swamy! This is a very detailed and wonderful response.

I now recollect listening to Velukkudi Swamy’s upanyasams where he mentions about purva and uthara sandhi kalam. Thank you for helping me understand this.

Adiyen,
Ramanujadasan

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0 on December 25, 2018

Adiyean!!
You can also refer to earlier forum link wherein the Maha Kala kanakku is tabulated for easy reference.
Ramanuja dhasan.

https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Astonishing-Khaal-Kanakku1-1.jpg

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1 on December 25, 2018

From Srinivasan

on December 27, 2018

Srimathe ramanujaya nama:

Thank you very much, Swami..

Adiyen,
Ramanujadasan

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0 on December 25, 2018

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,

Arpudham BhagavAtas.

Nandri Aadhi BhagavAta for writing down by referring to Sri Velukkudi Swami’s Bhagavatam/GuruParamparai/Alwargal Vaibhavam upanyasams regarding Alwars avatars sloka references and Kaala kanakku as Kainkaryam to Swami.

Nandri Srinivasan BhagavAta for posting the Kaala kanakku table from Swami’s Yathintra Mata Deepika upanyasams and Grantham as Kainkaryam to Swami.

Adiyaargal Vaazha ArangaNagar Vaazha Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamiye Innum Our Nootraandu Irumm.

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu

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0 on July 9, 2019

Swami,
Thank you all for the replies. But still the doubt in timelines persists.
In vishnu sahasranama upanyasam Velukkudi swami mentions twice Nammazhwar was born just after 45 days of lord krishna’s departure to vaikuntam. An anectode of “maambazham pallil pattu vizhunthathu” Is also mentioned.
However, bhagavatham is recited long after Lord krishna’s departure where azhwars are in future tense.
But if we consider purva sandhi and uttara sandhi kaalam the gap is about 1,08,000 years or 72000 years if only uttara sandhi is considered.
Hence unable to comprehend the explanation.
The only thing which adiyen felt was for bhagava the one lakh odd years is a very small time. But still my flawed mind is unable to comprehend it.
Request swami to kindly clarify.
Adiyen srinivasa dasan

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Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,

 

Dear All BhagavAta’s,

 

Looks like the initial question is same as what BhagavAta is asking again.

 

Adiyen tried to put together the Chathur Yuga in a block format and vertical lines for the time-lines with comments as attached.

 

 

Actually, each Yuga period is short like

Kali Yuga = 360,000 years

Dwapara Yuga = 720,000 years

Thretha Yuga = 1080,000 years

Krita/Sathya Yuga = 1440,000 years

 

“Sandhi” means “Gap or a JUNCTION/BRIDGE” between each yughas. Here, the gap is “TIME” gap between each Yughas, and NOT a TIME OVERLAP between each Yughas.

This time gap is not accounted to each of the ACTUAL YUGHA

Like Kali Yugha Poorva Sandhi and Uttara Sandhi is each 36,000 years, but we cannot call Kali Yugha as 432,000 years. Instead Kali Yugha is 360,000 years with Time Gap “BEFORE (poorva) & AFTER (Uttara) of that YUGHA, and so as it follows for each other YUGHA’s with its own time periods.

 

That’s why we get confused which is start point of each YUGHA. Please see the GREEN color cells, which is the ACTUAL YUGHA’s.

So, Each actual Yughas plus ALL the Sandhi’s make up One Chatur Yugha.

 

Answer:

1) What Swami meant is SriKrishna BhagavAn left to SriVaikuntam during the end of the ACTUAL Dwapara Yugha, and Swami NamALwar Avataram is 45 days after the ACTUAL Kali Yugha Start. Sometimes, Swami skips the Uttara Sandhi of Dwapara Yugha (72,000 years) and the Poorva Sandhi of Kali Yugha (36,000 years) intentionally, otherwise the intent of the upanyasam may get diverted to Kaala Kanakku instead of focusing on Alwar Avatara Vishayam. So when Swami delivers in Upanysams, depending up on situation, Swami  says “Swami NamAlwar Avatram is 45 days after SriKrisha’s departure at the end of Dwapara Yugha, without mentioning the Uttara & Poorva sandhi of each yughas“. But in Srimadh Bhagavtam upnayasam, Swami says details of Kaala Kanakku. Also there is a Enpani where Swami says about Swami NamAlwar’s Avatram period. Adiyen couldn’t locate the Enpani audio number.

 

 

2) Veda Vyasar compiled the Srimadh Bhagavatm at the end of ACTUAL Dwapara Yugha. The Alwars Avatram in future Poorva sandhiof Klai Yugha and other Alwars avatram in the beginning of ACTUAL Kali Yugha is a Forecast by Veda Vyasar (like DIVYA DHRISTI). This is also called as Bhavishyath Vaani. Like Swami Ramanujar Avataram was also forecasted by Swami NamAlwar in Paasuram “Kaliyum Kedum Kandu Konmin…….” and Swami Ramanuajr’s  1st Archai Deity form was made by MadhuraKavi Alwar from Tamarabharani River upon Swami NamAlwar’s Kataksham during NamAlwar’s period itself.

 

**************

Similar ‘Ithihaasa’ Reference for such confusion,

In Sampradhayam, Pranavam “Aum ॐ” is expanded as (for Bhagavan) + உ (for Acharyan) +ம (for BhaddhAthma).

JeevAthama (Arjuna “ம”) listened to SriKrishnan Swami’s (“ஆ”) 700 slokhas (BhagavAt Gita) DIRECTLY. Arjuna couldn’t understand overall what SriKrishnan said and got confused as well, so he never did Sharanagathy. One day, after the war was over, SriKrishna asked Arjuna, do you remember the 700 slokhas that I said in Kurushetra, he said, I don’t remember.   was expecting to understand the slokhas meaning with its own intelligence which is covered with karmas (all of us), without Providing BLESSINGS to him to understand.

This is because there was NO Intermediate Acharya’s ( “உ” ) to elaborate the details of SriKrishnan Swami’s MIND and clear Arjuna’s confusion firmly and moreover BLESS him to understand what was said,

Intermediate Acharya’s ( “உ” ) is very important, other wise “ஆ” will say one thing and “ம” will listen one thing. It ends up in confusion. The history always repeats. Sometimes it happens in our life as well, but we intermediate BhagavAta’s are here to clear up the confusion depending up on situation.

***************

 

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu

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