Srivathsan swamy, namaskaram.

Thank you for expressing your thoughts. Let me try and address with my little mite.

1. One reason sastram recommends to cremate the body through systematic rituals is, since we have been residing in this body for so long, subconsciously we are so much attached to it that we don’t even realise our degree of attachment! It is said, if the body is not cremated properly, the soul may be still hanging around with attachment to the body. So, cremating the body completely through prescibed rituals gives a sense of closure to the atma to move on.
2. You do agree that a sharanagatha must use the body only in service to acharyan and Divya Dampathi. So, if you are keen to donate your body after you leave it, then ensure that the recipient will use the body in service to Divya Dampathi through his/her acharyan. If you can not ensure that, will you not be implicated for they engaging in some wrong activity because of the body (parts) you donated. For example, if I donate my cornea (eye) to a person who had lost his vision due to damage to cornea, and the person uses the eye to watch pornography, will that not implicate him in severe sins? Will that not bear reaction for me also since I acted without discrimination?

Do share you thoughts. Thank you.

adiyen dasan.

PS: by the way, you say you are “not a Sri-Vaishnava”. May I know what is your understanding of whom should be considered as a SriVaishava?

Thank you.

adiyen dasan.

Namaskaram Kambandasan swamy,

Thanks for your reply. There indeed should be an intimate and integral connection for Athma with Shareeram especially special occurrences that must be happening at the time of [child] conception, janmam and maranam. Any knowledge of mine and the comments I make on these subjects are only based on my “kelvi gyanam” from the upanyasams of mahan-s like Sri Velukkudi Swamy. 

The necessity to cremate the body(dahanam) is essential and I do not have pAndithyam or anubhuthi gyanam to explain further or contest on how athma will behave the moment it gets out of shareeram and in the near-future period.

Nature and Aspects of Help

I agree on a general principle that we must have it as an aim and be careful that our Karma/actions including decisions must propel and propagate dharmika sathkaryam/good deeds and not adharma karyam. According to my knowledge and understanding, the general intention and motive behind any paropakaaram/honest help meaning that which is not done with expectations of prathyupakaram, has explicit and implicit aspects to it (all or some or one of them according to the situation). The Doer*

A. Is emotionally moved to help

B. Is conciously moved to help

(1) Understands the role s/he plays in the (social) system and realises certain activities are to be performed for the maintenance of public, social, and moral order

(2) Feels the person or the animal or the object whom he helps is worthy of respect and s/he does the help with a sense of gratitude

(3) Understands the ripple effects of the benefits that her/his help is expected to generate to others and/or society

(4) Has in mind the ultimate beneficiary of the help s/he does while the action of help itself is done to someone else

(5) Help in order to prevent unfortunate mishappenings

C. Is groomed by her/his upbringing and circumstances and helps unconsciously embedded in their lifestyle

* Doer, here simply refers to the person performing the action of help and not the karthruthva bhuddhi.

(The above is not an exhaustive list)

Relevance to Uruppu Dhanam/Body Donation

The reasons for a person to commit to Uruppu Dhanam, let’s expand the scope and also include Kidney which is donated while the donor is alive and blood, will have a combination of two or more of the aspects mentioned above. The person who does uruppu dhanam does not do it so as to benefit a particular person or a class or section as the very nature of this help is not person-specific. There are activities that we perform not considering the individuals who will benefit and the probable unwelcomed situations but for the sake of help as a duty instigated by factors as said above and/or to facilitate and further a system in place. 

For eg., We don’t really have it as a consideration while volunteering or spearheading a kudi maramathu, kulam yeri vettudhal pani that a thief, a mahapathaka or an adharmi may drink water from the pond I’m going to create so I’m not going to do the service at all. While planting a tree in public we are not going to think that an adharmi or mahapathaka will enjoy the fruits of it so let us better not plant it. We are not going to stop donating to a charitable trust fearing the (non-corpus) donations may be used to pay some of the servants who are very rude to us or will be spent for a child’s education who is doing adharmic karyam. We presume and have to, it’s all fine untill we find evidence and instances to the contrary. This is the obvious normal way/manner of living. Now there are umpteen situations that all of us (including people who have undergone panch samskaram) have crossed, experienced, been part of and continue to do in our life, where we don’t really pay attention to the probable bad situations and stop doing the help completely. This is because the help is aimed at a general cause that does not and cannot really count in the individual ultimate beneficiaries, it is a case of bahulam. 

>>>Me, My help —–>General cause not considering particular individual—–> an individual actually receives the help<<< 

My Take- Conclusion

Thus I don’t think there is a necessity to ponder over the thought that a person who will receive may not be a sri vaishnava or a follower of achara anushtana and vaidheeka matham shastram thus the sharanagatha donor is guilty of some paapam or in violation of sharanagathi/vratham. This is all the more relevant since with the same body that one has surrendered to Acharya and Divya Dampathi s/he may be already doing the help that are of nature discussed in the above paragraph. Since the nature of the help that we are discussing is not by design a one-on-one help, while there are situations that donation through ‘will’ is to a person whom the donor know and has specified, I do not feel we need to consider the character and personality of the ultimate beneficiary. The question of discrimination or accusation of acting indiscriminate does not arise for the reasons mentioned above. This will arise in case if I willingly donate to a political party that is rooted in abusing sanathana dharma then I’m guilty of acting indiscriminately whether the money is used to fund protests against dharma or to pay salary to innocent housekeeping workers.

If at all we need to perceive differently: I’ll rather propose an alternative mindset that the sharanagatha donor prays to Acharya Piratti and Peruman that they will bestow their karunai and anugraham on the person whoever receives her/his uruppu or in fact only a follower of dharma is the one who actually receives the uruppu.

Transfer of Paapam/Punyam

In case if we are worried that our paapam will be transferred to the person who will receive our uruppu, (I do not know if it’s mentioned in shastra-s as so) Even in such a case I see that the benefits that the donee will gain through the donation, including longevity and health, outweigh the paapam that may be transferred. Dharma, in my opinion, accounts for cost-benefit analysis, performing acts that cause the least damage or that prevent untoward situations, thus I see benefit outweighs the cost. So I’m in for it from this angle too.

Science and Shastreeya Vigyanam

I presume there are relevant guidances in our shastram on this topic. These, as we believe, are highly scientific revelations and principles. Thus to further the Bharatheeya contribution and response in the field of organ donations and medicine/maruthuvam in general, I sincerely wish the dharmic bio-technology scholars and doctors to conduct researches and prove in the international medical forums the relevance and accuracy of shastram. This will not just allow for Bharatham’s fame to rise, faith in shastram but will also provide relevant, practical, scalable and implementable solutions which otherwise will only remain a mere discussion.

On Srivaishnava– I don’t have My criteria to classify someone a srivaishnava. I said I’m not one since I’m not a Ramanuja Sambhandhi, I haven’t done sharanagathi at the thiruvadi of any srivaishnava acharya-s thus have not undergone pancha samskaram. Although I have heard of the egalitarian view that all the jeevathma-s are shareeram to Baghavan Narayana, a Sesha to Him and thus everyone is by default a Srivaishnava it is that they are only pending to recognise this fact and do sharanagathi. 

I registered the above views and opinions of mine for the purpose of discussion and exchange of ideas. If anything was inappropriate or inaccurate, I apologise- Kshamapanam 

Adiyen,

Srivathsan    

As you have rightly pointed out, it is impossible for anyone to clearly evaluate the intricacises of the outcome of any kind of charity. Be it kidney donation or blood donation or one’s effort in planting trees, digging wells, feeding birds and other animals, feeding the hungry, and so on… endless list of things one can group under one word “charity” – no one can actually evaluate the pros and cons accurately for each action of charity. So, the only way to go about it is, offer charity only as recommended in the sastras. Because the originator of sastras (God) knows the pros and cons of all kinds of intricate dealings and He has prescribed certain kind of charity and proscribed certain other kinds of charity. All I have to do is simply follow the sastram as explained by person(s) who are genuine, who are knowledgeable of the sastras, and who live their life by sastras. In my limited intelectual capacity I may try to evaluate certain situations and come up with a subjective conclusion. But obviously, my subjective conclusions are bound to be defective; sastric conclusions are not.

Let us try to understand what is real help. If someone is trying to commit suicide, would assisting that person be considered help? In a short-sighted perception it may seem to be a help; but in reality it is not.

Therefore, real help has to be evaluated based on what is really beneficial for that soul to regain his devotion towards God. Since we don’t know the intricies of the cause and effect of our help, the pros and cons on the outcome, we simplly have to follow the recommendation of the sastras.

Let us see what Bhagavad Gita says about charity:
Charity given our of duty, without expectation of return, at the proper time and place, and to a worthy person is considered to be in satva gunam. 17.21

But charity performed with the expectation of some return or with a desire for future personal gain, or in a grudging mood, is said to be charity in rajo gunam 17.22

And charity performed at an impure place, at the improper time, to unworthy persons, or without proper attention and respect is said to be in tamo gunam. 17.23

Anything done as sacrifice, charity or penance without faith in the Supreme, is impermanent. It is called ‘asat’ and is useless both in this life and the next. 17.28

(In response to “Science and Sastra Vignanam” passage)

As explained to you in a previous post and in Enpani, to understand sasra vignanam, one has to be in reasonable level of satva gunam. So, the only way to make someone understand sastra vignanam is to help the person become more and more satvam. Without this fundamental work, no one will understand an iota of this topic however expertly one may explain. Today we are able to understand to some extent because over the past several years we have heard upanyasams that have improved our level of satvam. Because of that increased satvam quality we are able to understand the sastric science.

(in response to your ‘Srivaishnava’ passage)

you have signed off as ‘adiyen’. What do you actually mean by this self identity? Which great personality do you consider yourself to be a servant of?

Thank you.

adiyen dasan. 

Namaskaram swamy,

Yes, agyani-s are limited by knowledge. When we look at the Gita verses that you’ve quoted the right-wrong, proper-improper place and time, I don’t think Gita or any scripture can provide an exhaustive list of ALL the situations and combinations of it that we may end up facing in our life for us to look up for standard readymade solution(s). We do apply our understanding, common sense, evaluation and decision making to the situations that we have concerned ourselves with, especially in present-day living conditions and lifestyle. We surely need to take into confidence those who have invested their time in living as per shastram so as to understand the tangible and intangible benefits that they have gained and experienced as a direct reason of following shastram which will positively guide our decision making.

Reverse the role- Perspective:

– MSD: My Self –Dhoni– Donee::

While it is one thing to discuss and debate on this issue, it is another thing that there are people undergoing treatments and in dire need of organs. If we reverse our role and there is a vaidheeka or follower of vaidheeka matham whose organ has failed and is in need of it, the doctors are going to do it. We as their saka and bandhu are going to expect the availability of it. Any Asthika will say they will pray to the Paramatham as per their sampradhayam but we are also going to act and act primarily. I don’t think of Anyone who will say we don’t need the organ or blood and let them suffer, eventually, die (unless we are Indian Thatha type). There are situations where people can manage with disabilities like blindness(Cornea) and choose to stay blind. But there are life-threatening situations. If we as donee are ready to receive there must be a donor to donate. No staunch asthika donee, their parivaram/bandhu/saka are possibly going to put a condition to only receive from another asthika of the same sampradhayam.  

– Reality check::

Thus whether we are the donee or donor the system and practice of organ donation exist. All of the above is what we see happening around us, probably even to any of our own relatives. Hence this is the present-day reality and this is what even we have to go through if anything happens to us or our relatives. It is up to individuals to decide to donate or not but there are obviously people who will donate and those who will receive it. The drive and awareness programmes for uruppu dhanam is only going to continue, if not at an improved pace. It is not a hard fixed situation that neither are those who believe in shastram are going to not donate nor are those who don’t believe in shastram are not going to donate. This is uncontrollable and unpredictable

– Logical conclusion::

I would rather choose to refrain from discussing this issue at an individual level and instead at an institutional level. This is for the reason that the individual cases possess uncontrollability and unpredictability. I believe it will do more good if the Subject Matter Expert (SME) dharmika-s position Ayurvedam and Shastram as superior scientific works and becomes an enabler for medicinal advancements including widespread all-encompassing medical service.

[Again a reality check] The fact that majority of us in this forum and also everywhere in Bharatham are seeking and living with Western Allopathy services, while simultaneously repeating with pride that Bharatham produced the first Bishak-s in the world, Our God-s are Bishak-s, Charaka Sushruthathigal are the first surgeons who even performed complicated plastic surgeries is a case that represents the big contradiction that I commented in the other thread. I would rather wish and attempt to help the SMEs that we create institutional systems and social conditions that we bharatheeya-s in overwhelming numbers seek only the services of our bharatheeya vaidhya-s practising ayurvedam even for matters as critical and nuanced as surgeries, than being satisfied with singing praises. And for that to happen it is indispensable that we not just ‘believe in Ayurvedam but also be able to produce results of researches and establish scientific validity amongst the medical community. The mainstream medical studies in Bharatham must be Ayurvedham, not MBBS. These are clear actionable and needs sets of action plans. If we are unable to produce such a result, it’s better we concede our defeat than blaming someone else for their rajasa thamasa gunam which prevented them from understanding our shastram. The opposing and completely differing idea-s that western biology has is the dominant player to which we all are regular consumers and customers. Now to pit Ayurvedam against it as an appropriate scientific system necessitates us dharmika SMEs to engage with the other camp in discussions. There is No other way. Even if we presume they can’t understand due to lack of Sathvam at least the dharmika SMEs must have blueprints and plans, carry on with their scholarly works so that it convinces many people of the validity and dependability of ayurvedam which will lay a foundational stone for the renaissance of bharatheeya dharmika gyana.  

The problems that we have are “REAL” and we are already on its web. It is not anymore possible for us to say it is someone else’s loss that they are unable to appreciate Shastram and they lack sathvam. The loss is theirs until it does not affect us. It affects us, thus the loss is ours. Allopathy, Pharma industry, their technological equipment and advances are the number one market/industry in the world and We bharatheeya-s dharmika-s are “very active” part of the market as consumers which strengthens their system of medicine. Thus while we are clearly and undeniably the active and passive supporters of someone else’s knowledge system who labels us as primitive it is only sensible that we are active supporters of our own knowledge systems. More importantly, this is a necessity in ALL the fields, every field leaving none.  

—-

Adiyen- This is a term that Shaiva-s, Vaishnava-s, Advaithin-s all use in Tamil Nadu, I use this signature to tell I’m primarily a part of the followers of the vaidheeka dharmam and my willingness to work, be a servant for the cause of dharma. If asked to pinpoint an exact definition of dharma I can’t as I’m still a student. But I do realise that there is a present imminent need for us to unwind, unlearn, relearn and come to terms with reality and present-day challenges that are grappling dharma or the Bharatheeya gyanam (Indic Knowledge system and its way of living). Thus I understand the responses that are essential to wade off the external and internal ideological threats are to be discovered conceived and chartered. Since this is the case with me, I don’t see myself as serving for the cause of any particular sampradhayam, although I belong to one. For eg., If I identify myself as Adhishakara sambhandhi I’ll be immersed in Advaitham and participate in Vidwad sadhas and there will be a Ramanuja Sambhandhi where we will be debating whether Kapyasam Pundareeka Akshini is Monkey Butt Red Eye, Or Sun Red Eye, but there are multiple set of religions, institutions, ideologies, systems that wish to intentionally and otherwise dismiss the existence of the Eye itself. I see it is more important at present to attempt establish the existence of the Eye in the first place, put in place a social structure that is conducive to it, ensure the threats and attacks are countered

Adiyen,

Srivathsan

I don’t think Gita or any scripture can provide an exhaustive list of ALL the situations and combinations of it that we may end up facing in our life for us to look up for standard readymade solution(s). We do apply our understanding, common sense, evaluation and decision making to the situations that we have concerned ourselves with, especially in present-day living conditions and lifestyle. We surely need to take into confidence those who have invested their time in living as per shastram so as to understand the tangible and intangible benefits that they have gained and experienced as a direct reason of following shastram which will positively guide our decision making. From vathsan

Our understanding, common sense, evaluation and decision making is based following the foot steps of acharya purushas. They have accessed the full deepth of the knowledge that has been packed in the ‘small’ verses in Bhagavad Gita. For example, when our swamy explains a verse in Bhagavad Gita, he goes into great deeps and reveals intricate explanations. In such deep explanations he is not throwing his own interpretations; he is simply presenting what poorvacharyas have explained as the deeper meaning of the verse. Once we have heard from the acharyas, then the ‘small simple’ sloka from Bhagavad Gita will be a quick reference for us to expand in our own heart and find appropriate solution for each situation. 

I don’t think of Anyone who will say we don’t need the organ or blood and let them suffer, eventually, die. From vathsan

This is subjective, depending on the level of spiritual progress of the individual and the family members. The choice we make depends on our answer to the following two questions: 1. What is suffering? is it to undergo some pain and die sooner, or to undergo more pain (through medical interventions) and die a little later. 2. What is the solution to the suffering? Is it to transplant one part of the body from another person through medical intervention, or is it to transplant the soul into an entirely new body (all body parts are fresh!!!!) through the natural process of death.

My father has told me that if ever a medical situation arises where I have to make a decision (and he is not in a situation to express himself), I should choose the option of natural death instead of poking the body a hundred times and have a painful death after a few more days. (I hope and pray he doesn’t have to face such health conditions). I have also heard of a few more people who have lived by this principle, knowing fully well that death is inevitable, and the question is not when we die, but whether or not we have lived in a way to make this as our last birth.

So, when it comes to organ transplantation my main question is, how is the recipient going to use the extended life to strive towards ensuring this birth is the last birth. Otherwise, it is not worth the pain; it is better to get a whole new body than just replace one part of the body. [/quote]

It is up to individuals to decide to donate or not but there are obviously people who will donate and those who will receive it. From vathsan

100% true! It is upto each individual / family to make the decision based on their level of spiritual maturity; and what our swamy has shared is based on the guidance of sastram. 

Just because there are others whose level of spiritual maturity lets them prefer organ transplantation without deeper consideration, that does not mean Sastram has to reinvent itself or the preachers of sastram have to say something outside sastram. 

I would rather choose to refrain from discussing this issue at an individual level and instead at an institutional level. From vathsan

Correct! Therefore, for the followers of the institution of Sastram, the sastric guidlines is shared by the acharyas. If someone chooses to ignore this institution and choose a different institution of convenience, they are welcome to do so.

I believe it will do more good if the Subject Matter Expert (SME) dharmika-s position Ayurvedam and Shastram as superior scientific works and becomes an enabler for medicinal advancements including widespread all-encompassing medical service. From vathsan

Let me try and explain one more time; hopefully you will understand in one of these attempts. How much ever SMEs may explain, those who are absorbed in lower gunams can not understand. When I was in lower gunams I didn’t appreciate or understand the efficacy of ayurvedam. Now I do appreciate it; it is not based on pedantic analysis and conclusion. Becase the level of satvam gunam in me has been increased by the anugraham of my acharyan, I am able to appreciate the vedic knowledge and the purpose of it much better. The more satvam I cultivate, the more I understand and appreciate this knowledge. 

So, simply SMEs publishing papers in journal and conferences is not going to make ANY change. At the best, the non-believers will try to engage in some kind of biopiracy and figure out what are the active ingredients in the trational medicine, and try to patent that molecule!

The fact that majority of us in this forum and also everywhere in Bharatham are seeking and living with Western Allopathy services, while simultaneously repeating with pride that Bharatham From vathsan

Many of us go for allopathy for the following reasons:

1. over the past few centuries, we have lost a lot of our traditional medicine knowledge; since it was passed on from teacher to student and hardly through written documents, we don’t have access to much of the knowledge
2. We don’t have access to many of the herbs that were available
3. Our life style has changed and prefers a quick fix relief for symptoms rather than a longer treatment that addresses the root cause of the disease.

I would rather wish and attempt to help the SMEs that we create institutional systems and social conditions that we bharatheeya-s in overwhelming numbers seek only the services of our bharatheeya vaidhya-s practising ayurvedam even for matters as critical and nuanced as surgeries, than being satisfied with singing praises.From vathsan

We don’t have all of those treatments and resources available today. Even if available, the traditinal medicine treatments could take a longer time to cure. Nevertheless, singing praises is good because it teaches us to value whatever little knowledge we have access today!

 If we are unable to produce such a result, it’s better we concede our defeat than blaming someone else for their rajasa thamasa gunam which prevented them from understanding our shastram. From vathsan

It is not ‘blaming’ anyone. It is finding out what actually is wrong and what actionable steps have to be taken to turn things around for better. We have to look for the lost key at the place where it is lost, not where it is convenient for us to search. It may be convenient for us to publish a series of papers in journals and hope our ‘key’ will be found. But unless we address the overall rajo-tamo gunam and the consequent qualities that percolate the society through the education system, we can not bring about any change.

must have blueprints and plans, carry on with their scholarly works so that it convinces many people of the validity and dependability of ayurvedam which will lay a foundational stone for the renaissance of bharatheeya dharmika gyana.  From vathsan

Thankfully desireable changes are happening indeed, although not because of ‘scholarly works’. Recently I heard a news that an international institution for traditional medicine is about to be opened in India. I suppose, this will be a centre for differnet forms of traditional medicine around the world (not just ayurvedam). The corona situation has also helped a larger section of the society appreciate ayurvedam. I have spoken to one allopathy doctor who had scant regard for traditional medicine earlier; now she was me how she consulted a siddha doctor and followed his instructions for dealing with the covid situation.

Allopathy, Pharma industry, their technological equipment and advances are the number one market/industry in the world and We bharatheeya-s dharmika-s are “very active” part of the market as consumers which strengthens their system of medicine. From vathsan

Ayurveda coming to predominance is not going to change this in any way. If we consider today’s pharma industry as profit oriented and exploitative, tomorrow the same is going to happen with ayurveda-pharma!! (well, it is already happening!). This is just one of the symptoms of kaliyuga. A good motivation for us to lead this life in such a manner to avoid coming back here! 

adiyen dasan.

Namaskaram Swamy,

As a corollary and a logical deduction to your above reply, it also is clear that anyone who has committed themselves to Shastram (including having undergone the likes of pancha samksaram) must not enrol in MBBS to become a surgeon especially not involving organ transplant surgeries. Since performing such surgeries amounts to enabling others to violate [the letter, spirit and prescription of] shastram and abstinence from the process entirely appear to me to be a true adherence to shastram. Maybe there must also be another audio in the line dissuading such people from taking up medical courses concerning surgeries.

Adiyen,

Srivathsan

To seek knowledge through genuine enquiry is one way to gain knowledge.

Another way seems to be to engage in vithanda-vaatham, whether the goal is not to really understand the way things are; rather the subtle goal is to simply engage in a debate for the pleasure of engaging in debate. Even when the other person explains in detail, one would pick a sliver of a primer and try to continue the debate in a new direction.

I am sorry I am unwilling to spend my time on this sort of engagement. If you really want to learn things, you may approach a qualified person with the right attitude (as described in Bhagavad Gita 4.34), and such a person will give you the jnanam. 

adiyen dasan.

Namaskaram swamy,

I’m sorry but I do not know what has irked you. I’m sure I’m not engaging in vithanda vadham or jalpam. It is an undeniable “fact” that our children-students pursue, with overwhelming encouragement from parents, the qualifications emanating from western(ashAstreeya) principle, systems, and theories many of which we clearly don’t agree with and one of the examples is our discussion topic. We also discourage or advise against some of the practices followed in there for our lifestyle and chosen path. While this is the case, my question that we might as well discourage or advise against or dissuade our children-students from venturing into such streams of studies seems perfectly valid to me. According to me, such a step more faithfully represents the stand that we take. If such questions make you feel uncomfortable I apologize. I’ll rest the matter at this and seek answers from elsewhere.

Adiyen,

Srivathsan

Dear Srivatsan,

namaskaram. Yes, I was irked; I was irked by the argument presented earlier that our swamy should post another audio advising  surgeons to stop engaging organ transplant surgery. Consider the fraction of population who have received panca samskaram: Among them how many are doctors? how many are surgeons? how many are organ transplant surgeons? And amongst those how many are regular hearers of en pani? Considering the minisculity of  this number, presenting an arguement that an enpani should be posted for them seemed a vithanda vatham to me.

However, the recent posting from you expresses your concern from a bigger picture. Yes, please go ahead and seek answer from an appropriate person who can address your queries. In the meanwhile, I’ll also share my current understanding on this; give me time till this weekend; am a little busy now.

warm regards,

adiyen dasan.

Namaskaram Vikram Swamy,

My comment was not to dissuade or criticise anyone from pursuing any course including MBBS. It’s not because of the reasons- I understand their choice, passion, it’s their right etc., I can’t and won’t because One- I can’t stop anyone and Two- that’s the reality of today within which even I’m a part of and everyone is.

What I’m trying to explain is whether we hate frog dissection or lab testing animals or anything that’s practiced by doctors students, we just can’t do anything about it and we must always bear in mind that it’s again WE who go to the same doctors whose learning methodologies we say are inhumane and not sathvikam. So we must take cognizance of the reality and if we find that uncomfortable the option is to only think through a different system or reclaim any old systems. Otherwise our concerns will just be ours or a post dinner discussion/thinnai pechu and may end up causing pain to us. While we are directly contributing to the strength of a system and working for it at an institutional level we in our personal life don’t agree with it or even despise it.

This is just to explain what I observe and what I find to be contradictory and demands our action. Others may have a different pov

Adiyen,
Srivathsan

P.S – Mata MahaKaalee and Mahadev Mahakala holds skull in hands or wear them in neck. Kapalini is name of Mata Mahakali. It is symbolic meaning that she gives Moksha to trapped Jeevatmas. Atma that gets moksha leaves body by a hole in skull. Others leave body body by mouth etc