Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
Namskaram All Swami’s,
With Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Ammangaar Abhimaanam and Velukkudi SriKrishnan Swami Aasirvadham, to add value to the conversation and more precisely, Adiyen would like to share what is meant by SCIENCE?. How Vedas/Puranas talk about BhagavAn Sriman NarayanA Creation and how HIS creation is being understood by different levels of people. Earlier Adiyen mentioned some of it in a different thread, but will capture again with example of “Black Hole” from Puranaas.
If every devotees can understand the below Prefix with positive mind and Visualize as much as possible in mind, then only the further details of Black hole can be understood.
A) Believers of GOD are “Spiritual Development Field” and follow Shastras/Vedas for BHagavAn’s Happiness.
B) Partial/Non-Believers of GOD are “Material Development Field” and follow Shastras/Vedas for THEIR own Happiness.
So, Both “Material & Spiritual” Development Field people, use the Common Shastras/Vedas that BhagavAn has created and each focus on the areas of Shastras/Vedas that they are interested. This is something that BhagavAn is allowing to ALL (either Good or Bad; Asthika or Nasthika or Asthika-Nasthikas, Inside India or Outside India).
There are three ways to know things:
1) One way is Pratyaksham (Seeing/Visual): Some believe only if they See with naked eyes. Like, what is a Fire?. When we see the actual fire, then we can memorize in our mind that this is called Fire and we it for second time, then we boldly say it is Fire, because we have seen it in first time.
2) Second way is Anumaanam (Guessing): Guess based on our past experiences of Prathyaksham. Like if we see a smoke behind a hill, then we can Guess that the smoke is due to a Fire, since we have memorized the Fire during the previous Prathyaksham (Visual) experience. If we have never seen a Fire, then we cannot guess that the smoke is from the Fire.
3) Third way is Shabtham (Pramaanam/Written Original Text): Just Believe what the text says, if it is written by another Devotees/Acharyas/Mahan and the content is Constructive for Lokha kShemam (Welfare of the World). It is not necessary to know by Prathyaksham or Anumaanam.
Swami has said, We have never seen BhagavAn Sriman NarayanAn for first time in the past (as Prathyaksham), so we cannot even do Guessing (Anumaanam) about HOW BhagavAn will be?. Hence, BhagavAn Sriman NarayanAn can be KNOWN ONLY by Shabtham (Pramaanam/Texts) which is nothing but VEDAS.
Category A) type people believe in Type 3) Shabtham Pramaanam VEDAS and related Spiritual texts
Category B) type people have hard time believing in Almighty GOD (Sriman NarayanA) and HIS Creation. So for such people, BhagavAn caters the type 1) Prathyaksham and type 2) Anumaanam method to give a taste of HIS creation.
Like, the SCIENCE is one of the method that BhagavAN adopts to bring belief in such people due to their Karmas, who likes to trust on Prathyaksham (Believe in what we see and who don’t believe in what cannot be seen). That doesn’t mean, all scientists are non-believers. Many are also work in firms or some in research areas whether medical, or physics, or automotive or aerospace atc… but believe and follow BhagavAn and Vedas/Shastras due our to contact with Mahans like Swami/Acharyas.
Anyway, consider Inventing a Telescope. Who decides how much distant objects can be seen using a telescope. BhagavAn decides it. Once, they start searching, there is no end to it. Then they start raising questions, what is the end of the telescopic view, how did this universe exist etc……..Slowly after a period of time, they come to realize about it through Vedas etc that there has to be a Creator, if a Creation has to exist. This is like putting a bait (small worm) on a fishing hook to catch a fish, means to attract the Partial and/or Non-believers of Almighty GOD to Spiritualism, HE shows HIS creation magnanimity. Black hole in Space is one such Prathyaksham (Visual) treat to get a grip of HIS creation.
So TRUE Definition of SCIENCE is as Follows:
SCIENCE/Inventions are nothing but “HOW much BhagavAn Sriman NarayanA (ALmighty GOD) ‘ALLOWS’ the Partial-believers or Non-believers to Know step-by-step about HIM by exposing the Magnanimity/Opulence etc .. of HIS creation, and then slowly they start transforming in to GOD-believers. This is beautiful process that BhagavAn has set-up and we ourselves have crossed or still crossing“.
With this base understanding, you can apply it to any scientific inventions, it is all in Vedas. So lets look into the Black Hole case specifci to this thread, since we in this forum need to keep in mind that we are CATEGORY A) people, who Believe in Shabtham Pramaanam even if Prathyaksham or Anumaanam pramaanams exist or not, it doesn’t mater to devotees like us.
Anyway, the word “Black Hole” itself is a new word that emerged in 20th century, but that doesn’t mean the object described under the word “black hole” started existing in 20th century.
The description of Black hole as given by Scientists is as follows based on the Prathyaksham pramaanam that BhagavAn allowed to them.
A black hole is a region of spacetime where gravity is so strong that nothing—no particles or even electromagnetic radiation such as light—can escape from it. What goes in never returns back. The black hole surface is called ‘Event Horizon’ which is the boundary of no escape and is very smooth as a polished mirror.
Now, coming to Category A) type people (devotees like us who believe in Shabtham Pramaanam), the word Black Hole may be new to us, but the description is not new to us, since it is already written by Veda Vyasa in Srimadh BhagavAtam Canto 5 Chapter 20 verse 35.
Black Hole Vedic name is Aloka Varsha (Dark region) known as Swarna Bhoomi (Land of Gold).
What this verse means is, this Golden land is of 10 crore 14 lakh Yojanas (1 yojana =10miles) width and is a torus ring (outer circle of the Sweet water ocean) which extends from the sweet water ocean (தூய நீர் கடல்) till the Lokaloka mountains (which itself is 16000 yojanas in width but as atirus ring to the outer circle of the Swarna Bhoomi (Golden Land/Black hole) and this Golden Land surface appearance is as smooth as a mirror and Anything put in there can impossibly be retrieved and therefore the place is avoided by all living entities and not a place to Live.
This description in Shabtham Pramaanam (Srimadh Bhagavatam) matches what is being found by Scientists using Prathyaksham Pramaanam (Visual).
Some details of location of this Golden Land (a.k.a Black Hole) with respect to our Earth location from Srimadh Bhagavatam.
Out of the 14 lokas in vertical plane of One Circular Andam, Earth (Bhoomi) is tiny and located in the VAST / Massive center lokam “Bhoolokam” of teh Andam.
Now cross-sectioning this Bhoolokam,
- There are seven Dweepams separated by seven oceans (These are not the ones inside the earth)
- Jambhu Dweepam is 1 lakh Yojana (10,00,000 miles wide) is center of the Bhoolokam of which Meru Mountain is in center (Note: This Meru Mountain is outside the EARTH), since this mountain itself is 1 lakh Yojana tall with base foot diamter as 16000 yojanas and top side diameter as 84000 yojanas (image like an Hour glass).
- Then there are 6 more Dweepams forming as circular ring outside the Jambhu Dweepam, with each of the 6 dweepams being CONCENTRIC to the Jambhu Dweepam. Means , if we draw a circular ring with 10,00,000 miles diameter (Jambhu Dweepam), then the center of this circle is same for bigger diamter circles (other 6 dweepams as well). LIke how we do “Arisi Maavu KOlam” infront of our house. It has same center point, but we make circles with bigger diameters.
- At the end of this cross section comes the Uttara Pushkaran Dweepa (31 lakh yojana wide) in torus to the ouercricle of the previous dweepa and next is the Mânasottara mountain of 54000 yojanas wide in torus and then the Dhakshina Pushkara Dweepa (31 lakh yojana wide) in torus,
- Then comes the sweet water ocean தூய நீர் கடல் (64 lakh yojana wide) in torus
So overall from Center of Meru Mountain to end of the Sweet Water Ocean is 2 crore 53Lakh Yojanas (1 yojana =10miles). Our Earth is approximately 6500~15,500 Yojanas (65,000~15,50,000 miles) away from center point of Jambhu Dweepam (MEru Mountain).
Beyond this Sweet Water Ocean upto another extreme LokaLoka Mounatian there is a Land called Dark Region of NO Inhabitants which is 10 crore 14lakh wide but in torus to the Swet water ocean outer circle which is the Swarna Bhoomi (Golden Land) where anything dropped doesn’t return. This REGION is the Black hole that we are seeing.
So the size of the Black Hole region is 10 crore 14lakh wide in Torus ring, almost 2crore 53lakh yojans distant from the center of Jambhu dweepam.
SCIENCE/Inventions are nothing but “HOW much BhagavAn Sriman NarayanA (ALmighty GOD) ‘ALLOWS’ the Partial-believers or Non-believers to Know step-by-step about HIM by exposing the Magnanimity/Opulence etc .. of HIS creation, and then slowly they start transforming in to GOD-believers. This is beautiful process that BhagavAn has set-up and we ourselves have crossed or still crossing“. SO let us Hold on to the Shabtham Pramaanam (Vedas).
Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhaoddyarcharyAr) Dasan,
Sarvam KKC Sholinghur DhoddayacharyAr-VedantacharyAr-KumarasingaracharyAr-Velukkudi Swmaigal Thiruvadigalil Samarpanam,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAR ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu