Why Unlimited number of Sthavara (as well as Jangama) as compared to Manusyas ?

Updated on January 6, 2017 in General
23 on December 8, 2016


adiyen wanted to enquire about a concept below which adiyen has not been able to fully grasp or understand or settle onto a perfect reasoning. Can Devareers please look into these small concepts and reply with the suitable reasoning whenever Devareers gets time.

adiyen has been frequently seeing that the number of Sthavara in form of trees, plants, grass, maybe even mountains, unlimited rocks, pebbles, (sand ? as well), or even material objects in front of our eyes. These number is infinite throughout this Earth. It is like infinity to the power of infinity. Whereas we humans on earth are like 700 crores only at any given point of time which is extremely alpam compared to this number.
We are aware that the humans only due to the different papams committed by them are born as the sthavara- jangama in due course of time. However, there is significant disparity in the number of sthavara and humans. Also, when we observe infinite no of sthavara, does that mean so much infinite Atmas have committed so many bad sins. It seems baffling that in Bhagavan’s creation, Atmas which are in maximum in Sthavara janmam, are manifested due to their Papams only.
I.e About 99% of the entities which we observe with our eyes daily are Sthavarams only. And all these are Atmas trapped due to Papas is extremely pain-giving. Is it really that these Atmas have done so much Papams and they are in prison-ed in such a life. In human life also, we see only a few people are in prison or jail, maybe 0.001% of humans. However, out of all Atmas, 99.99999% are in sthavara-jangama life owing to their papa-karma? Is that a matter of fact? or how do we give proper reasoning to this?


Thanking you,


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7 on December 6, 2016

Why this thread is not appearing in the General list of threads?


on December 8, 2016

1. Click “Following” tab
2. Click on Green approve link swami

on December 8, 2016

Adiyen approved devareer’s question. It will display now.

Forum admin please forgive adiyen.

on December 8, 2016

Where is the Approve link vikram swami ? Adiyen can’t find it. Even Adiyen’s questions do not appear. Adiyen thought only Admins can approve. Adiyen had posted a question multiple times but none of them got approved. Not sure to be honest. 

on December 11, 2016


Even my questions were never posted. I was worried why my question was not posted/approved.Can someone or Admin tell us the guidelines to ask a question.


Thank you.

on December 16, 2016

Venaktesh Swami, Krishna swami
Adiyen cannot post screenshot in text based replies. Green colour la approve link paarungo towards left of your newly posted question in “Following” tab. (Not all posts tab).

on December 17, 2016

Sorry Vikram Swamy. Adiyen would not like to do it as Adiyen did not know previously that it was a bug in the page. Adiyen feels we cannot misuse. Admins have been appointed by Velukkudi Swami for a purpose. It is their role to decide whether a question needs to be posted. Adiyen would not like to take that role rather leave it to them although Adiyen’s questions have not been posted for more than a month. 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan

on December 25, 2016

PERUMAL opened the bug for a purpose. Ours is the only brahmin community where questions and answers are less encouraged. My humble opinion.

Adiyen will use the bug till it’s closed. If it’s closed then will jump to some other community for Dharma Sandheha or will stop asking.

Adiyen would not like to wait for things to happen.

Acharyan Thiruvadigalukku SharanAgathi
Happy Ekadashi

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4 on December 8, 2016

Srimatey Ramanujaya Namaha

There are infinite number of universes. What we are in is just one among them. 

There are infinite number of Andams. Each Andam has 14 worlds. one of them is Bhu lokam. in Bhulokam, there are seven dweepas. We are in Jambu Dweepa. Jambu Dweepa itself is so big. The world that we see from Japan to USA is nothing when compared to the size of Jambu Dweepa. Each Dweepa that surrounds the inner Dweepa will be twice in size compared to inner Dweepa. 

We have anantha kodi andams in leela viboothi. so the sample space that we have taken is so small for us to have a measure. We just do not know what kind of living organisms live in other worlds. And one more thing, its not just about plants and animals, there are anantha kodi Atmas who are spread everywhere, who do not have a shariram and are waiting for one. Atmas are present everywhere either with shariram or without shariram. Unless an atma gets a shariram, that atma can do nothing literally. 

But yes to answer Devareer’s question, this is the reason we say,

“Aridhu Aridhu Maanidaraai pirathal aridhu” . After so many births one receives a human birth. All others are struggling only. But what to say of humans who do not make use of such an opportunity ?

“Is it really that these Atmas have done so much Papams and they are in prison-ed in such a life.” Yes this is true for all Baddha Jivatmas. Taking a human body in this birth but not making use of it to attain moksha is no different from being an animal/plant. 

Hope this helps.

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan 

on December 8, 2016

Thank you very much Venkatesh Swamy for giving such a detailed reply and so much clarity. adiyen will understand devareer’s reply more deeply and get back to the thread with any pending doubt in this regard.



on December 11, 2016


Swamy used to say that punya karma gets relinquished on experiencing happiness and papa karma gets relinquished on experiencing sorrow. 

I can understand that animals only relnquish karma and they don’t acquire karma. Likewise children below the age of 12 too never acquire karma but only relinquish as said by Swamy in Enpani.  Swamy also used to say that an athman trapped inside achit sareeram is only dormant ( it neither acquires nor relinquishes )

My doubt is about plants.  Though plants are living they cannot fell pain or pleasure. In such a case is an athman inside a plant dormant or the very state of being a plant itself enables the athman to relinquish karma?

on December 12, 2016

Srimatae Ramanujaya Namaha,

Namaskaram Madhavhee Bhagavatha,

With Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami’s Anugraham, adiyen has heard that, there are two bodies (Shareeram) for an Athman (Baddha Athman) as long as the Athman is residing in the Leela Viboothi which is made of pancha bootham (Prakrithi).

One is called “Sookshma Shareeram” (tiny Permanent body) which never gets destroyed from birth to birth and is invisible to naked eyes. It is almost same size as the Athman. This body is adhered to the Athman all the time for an infinite period (Anaadhi), same as how the Athman is Anaadhi. This body has a shape and is as tiny as multiple divisions of a grain. A BaddhaAthman means an Athman along with the Sookshma shareeram all the time.

Another is the “Sthoola Shareeram” (Temperory body) which is overlaid on to the Sookshma shareeram. An Athman gets multiple temporary bodies from birth to birth based on karma, like what we have now. This temporary body is of 84lakhs different types as per Padma Puranam. They are Aquatic bodies ; Plant bodies; Bacterial bodies underground & above ground; Animal bodies; Bird bodies; Manushya shareeram (This includes body types as Deva body like Brahma, Shiva, Indra and other demi-gods, Asura body & Human body on earth).

Tiny Sookshma shareeram has a head, hand, leg etc.. So when we get a temporary Sthoola body based on karma, the head of the Sookshma shareeram gets connected to the head of the particular Sthoola shareeram (like fish head or plant stem head or dog head or human head etc..) and so on the other related parts also gets connected one-to-one via “PRAANAN” which bonds the Sthoola shareeram & Sookshma shareeram.

There are different types of Praanan that connects both the bodies and each Praanan does each characteristics.

One of the Praanan that makes us feel the pain is “VIYANAN Praanan.

In human body and animals this Praanan is 100% active, so we or animal feel the pain when get hurt on their respective bodies.

In plants, this Viyanan Praanan is STILL ACTIVE, but the % is very less. SO PLANTS ALSO FEEL THE PAIN, but we don’t visually see the pain when we pluck fruits or cut a branch/stem of the plant. That is why Rishis or Yogis eat only fruits that is fallen on ground without plucking. Higher level yogis even don’t eat fallen fruits, since the fruit is still fresh, means the Viyanan Praanan is active, so they eat dry leafs or dry fruits on ground just for survival.

However we are Samsaris. Our prescribed food is fruits and vegetables and grains and rice. So we cook and eat. Though we know the % of the Viyanan Praanan is less in plant body, still we notice the plants pain when we cook only. Like curry leaves/mustard when put in hot oil pan, there is an explosion in pan which is nothing but the plants suffering due to pain.

So this leads to next question, can we cook or not.

The protocol before we cook is to say (a) “PERIYA PIRATTI THIRU KARANGALAL” and (b) THINK ONLY BhagavAt vishayam while cooking. (c) After cooking, offer the food to SriKrishna to get it SANCTIFIED and (d) THINK ONLY about BhagavAt vishayam while eating, so when we do all these four activities, then the paapam that we knowingly committed to satisfy our hunger is taken care by BhagavAn.

There is nothing we could do about it except to follow the rules.

Adiyen Srinivasa Dasan
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi
Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam

on December 13, 2016

Srimatae Ramanujaya Namaha

Continuation of the above about Viyanan Praanan.

So the BaddhaAthman is not the one who is dormant inside Achit Sthoola shareeram like stone, hill, sand etc… it is the Viyanan Praanan which is dormant. So when this Praanan is dormant, there is a disconnect in feeling the pain by the BaddhaAthman when the Achit Sthoola shareeram is hurt. For a BaddhaAthman in plant stool shareeram, this Praanan is active to some %, so it feels pain to some extent. It is fully active in other sthoola bodies like humans, animals, aquatic etc and feels the pain severely. That’s why our Santana Dharma says “Praani Himsai” is one of the biggest paapam and no one should do it.

In case of Rishis and Yogis with human sthoola shareeram, they practice Ashtanga yoga, through which they disconnect the Praanan between their Sthoola and Sookshma shareeram. So this helps them to continue their Bhakthi Yoga Margam without disturbance. That’s why, we have seen in Puranas that, when they do Tapas, they are sourrounded by ant hill or something and they don’t feel the pain.

We don’t need to focus on these things since we are Sharanagathi Margam and our focus is to get out of this birth – death cycle in this same birth by Acharyar Krupai.

As a SriVaishnavaite, we can Prostrate to BhagavAn through our Acharyar ThiruvAdi to take all the JeevAthma’s to SriVaikuntam, even if they don’t have or dont have a human body. Otherwise, we never know, when will they get a human body, then attain proper gyanam, then do sharanagathi, then Moksham. This is too difficult task for a JeevAthma. We are just fortunate with Acharyar Krupa kataksham . BhagavAn has kalyana gunam called “NIRHEDHUKAI KRUPAI (Causeless Mercy)”. Hope our prayers are well received.

BhagavAn has another kalyana gunam called ” NIRAANKUSA SWATHANTHRIYAM (Non-Questionable Freedom)” with which HE can choose to SHUTDOWN the Leela Vibhoothi once for All and take EVERYONE (all AntaKadakam) to Moksham. There will be no shristi after Maha Pralayam.

With the same NIRAANKUSA SWATHANTHRIYAM, BhagavAn can also choose to continue the Leela Vibhoothi. In this case, even if millions of JeevaAthmas are given Moksham, still there are millions of JeevAthmas remaining as per Swami’s EnPani #89 about “Will Athmas reduce to zero ( Infinite minus Infinite equals Infinite”. So with BhagavAn’s NIRHEDHUKAI KRUPAI, HE can grant Moksham to Anyone ( Gyani or Agyani or with body or without body or whatever….) based on our prostration to BhagavAn through our Acharyar ThiruvAdi, since ALL JeevAthma’s are Perumal Sotthu/property (THANNAKAEY’YAGA YENAI KOLLUM IDHAEY).

Sarvae Janaha Sukhino BhavAnthu,
Loka Samastha Sukhino BhavAnthu,
Achit-Chit-ParamaAthma Sukhino BhavAnthu

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam,
Acharyar ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam,
Ramanujan Yellarayum Aandanaey,
Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

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9 on December 19, 2016

Namaskaram Elayalwar Swamy. Thank you so much for enlightening me. I was so curious to know about other creatures. Your answer gave me a clear understanding about the state of athmas in different sareerams.
Thank you again Swamy

on December 19, 2016

Namaskaram Swamy

Please clarify my doubt

Honey is obtained by destroying the honeycomb. In the process of collecting honey, many honeybees tend to die.

Since honey is got by killing an organism, Is it a right act to consume it?

on December 22, 2016


Honey & Silk.
Honey = Honey bees
Silk = Silk worms

Our answer: How dare you question Veda?
Kanchi Periyava’s answer: Don’t wear silk sarees.

Am not sure about honey bees.

Let adiyen wait for other convincing answers. Adiyen

on December 23, 2016

Thank you for your reply Swamy
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy has mentioned in one of Enpani audio clips that there are people who make silk sarees out of silk worms after they die naturally. Sarees got in such a way can be worn by us.
I do not have any idea as to whether honey can be used.

on December 25, 2016

Honey was also derived without harming the bees. Now everything is commercialized.

Deer skin is prohibited by law so my Acharyan stopped using it.

Earlier dead animal skin was used but nowadays deer is hunted. So our sampradhayam follows the Kingdom’s (Government’s) decision.

There are lot more questions though. Some madhAs were invented for ahimsa. Those as per Velukkudi Krishnan Swami are:

* Veda bhAyAs – Against vedA
*Veda kudrushti – Incorrect meaning to vEdA

For long we have been having question,

“Why animals were/are sacrificed during yagyams”?

Our answer: Those animals go to heaven!

The following question will be “are those animals being consented?” It might sound like a joke but it’s difficult to digest for me to know the fact that such sacrifice indeed existed in a religion following “non violence”.

Till date adiyen is waiting for convincing replies.

on December 29, 2016

Srimatae Ramanujaya Namaha,

Adiyen Dasanudasan,


Swami’s Enpani #148 (Non Vegeterain In Early..) & #423 (Can We be Vegan…..) says about how to handle the situation when we hear about the milk extracted by torturing cows and silk etc. We can only relate this example to other items like Honey, etc… and follow accordingly. Try to find places where milk or Honey or Silk is extracted without doing any Himsai.


Adiyen has heard that the honeybees in the honeycomb are driven away by the smoke generated by the Thee Pandham (Fire flame Torch) of Neem leaves. However, as far as micro organisms getting killed happens all the time, when we walk, sit, eat etc.. If we use micrscope and see the curd rice, there are plenty of microorganisms, but still we eat, since it is not visible to naked eyes. With BhagaVan’s Krupai, HE blindfolds this thinking with VISHU MAYA, so we can eat our regular prescribed food. Nowadays, instead of Silk Sarees, the trend is changing to Eco-riendly Banana Sarees made from Banana fiber (almost looks like Silk Sarees), which is in-line with our tradition of using Banana fiber to make flower garland for Perumal. If we can find such places where these items are processed without Himsai, that is well and good. But, most of the milk, honey we get is from stores, it is difficult to tell how it is processed. Sometimes, we can see canned milk with labels reflecting “cows not treated with hormones”. Eitherway, when we offer the items as prescribed in shastras for this Yuga to BhgaVan, then the dhosham is eliminated.


However in SriVaikuntam, our life is not time-based, so there is no deterioration or no expiry or no pain etc.. So, all the struggles and temperory happiness that we face here in this samsaram is NO MORE, when we are in Permanent Anandham by doing Nithya Kainkaryam to BhagaVan and ALL.


Please disregard any errors.


Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam

Acharyar ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam.

Adiyen Srinivasa Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

on December 30, 2016

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
ElayAzhwar Swami,
— Sometimes, we can see canned milk with labels reflecting “cows not treated with hormones”. Eitherway, when we offer the items as prescribed in shastras for this Yuga to BhgaVan, then the dhosham is eliminated. —

Adiyen’s father used to say the “samagri” to yagam MUST be pure. Canned or packet milk will not satisfy the yagam.

It should be DIRECT Pasu cow’s milk.

on December 30, 2016

Srimatae Ramanujaya Namaha

Adiyen agree with devareer and Devareer’s Thagapanaar’s comment for yagam.

Adiyennai shamikka prathikkiraen for misstatement.

Adiyen said the above statement only for our consumption of such items if we cannot get direct cows milk. So we offer to Perumal at our home. Also for people outside India cannot get direct cows milk to do abhishekam as the law prohibits direct selling. So to do abhishekam in Perumal Temples outside India, people try to find as much as purity of milk as found in India, since they have no choice. So getting direct cows milk is the first choice, if not then we go to next choices and finally says “Shamasva Purushothama”.

Adiyen Srinivasa Dasan
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi
Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

on January 5, 2017

Adiyenai kshamikkavum. Devareer thiruvadigaley sharanam

on January 6, 2017

Srimatae Ramanujaya Namaha,

Adiyen Dasanudasan Vikram swamy.

Adiyen only try to share what adiyen understood from upanyasams. At the same time, adiyen is also bound by my karmas with which there is possibility of miscommunication. But adiyen has learned about the quality of the samagri’s to be used in yagam from devareer’s reply.

Acharyar ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam.
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi
Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

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