Thirumangai Alwar

Updated 4 days ago in Azhwars

Namaskaram to all Bhagavathas,

Since I am a beginner in Sri Vaisnavam, recently I came across an information about Thirumangai Alwar in Wikipedia. There it is mentioned that Thirumangai Alwar melted the golden idol of Buddha to build the third wall in Srirangam. Can anyone explain why he did this?

Adiyen.

 
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5 6 days ago

Srimate Rammujaye Namaha!,

It is very hard to predict why exalted devotees choose certain actions.

First of all i am not sure if this incident is true, but perhaps yes as i have heard similar story.

one possibility is Buddha avataram was meant to stop non violence in a  particular age, but did not encourage vedic way of life ( as that point promoting basic human values like non violence ) was important. So after that was achieved in that period, the purpose was served, it is more important to people to accept vedas and to worship personal form of God directly.

So when given a priority between these two- Building Srirangam wall is more important is it not?

(For example we use veshti, after some time the same is used as a cradle cloth for a new born baby..)

Thirukachidaasanudasan

Adiyen

 

6 days ago

enpanifan swamy,

Can we extend this logic to the avatars including Lord Krishna. Since, he has specifically mentioned that he appears whenever prevalence of adharma dominants (I may not be correct in putting that exactly. But hope it is conveyed here).
So, I am not in support of your view.

adiyen

6 days ago

Strictly speaking the analogy given above cannot be extended to avatars of Lord. But the person who did it is not a common person..but an unalloyed devotee of the Lord. So it has to be correct. That is how i view it swamy.

Adiyen

6 days ago

There should be reason to say that the analogy can not be extended. Buddha is considered an avatar of Lord Vishnu, though there are controversies.
The thread itself is for why it is done. Hence, the quality of the Alwar can not be quoted to dismiss. I do not question on his quality.
He could have simply melted, without any reason, for the simple reason of money requirement.

adiyen

Pls read the shloka “jita bahya jinadi manipratima: api vaidikayanniva Rangapure” of Sri Parashara Bhattar in Sri Ranga Rajastavam

5 days ago

Resp. Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy,
Namaskaram.

Thank you for the reference provided.

adiyen

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3 5 days ago

Srimate Ramanujaye Namaha!

Dhanyosmi swami🙏 for clarifying and providing appropriate reference.
I looked up the shloka and found as below.

jitabAhya jina Adi maNipratimA
api vaidikayan iva rangapure |
maNimaNDapa vapagaNaan vidadhe
parakAlakavi: praNamemahi tAn ||

Thirumangai azhwar was like yama to religions like Jains, who preached against Vedas. He defeated them through his verbal intellect itself. He captured all their vigrahas which were made of gold and other precious stones. He constructed the moats and other gopurams at Srirangam out of these valuables.

Adiyen

5 days ago

In another tamil translation an additional line was added in the end “So lets respect and worship them”. (My understanding is it is probably referring to the walls and gopurams of Srirangam temple).

Just thought of adding that line as well here, as may be it is also important.

Adiyen

Thirukkachtchi swamy, namaskaram. In the four lines of the sloka you have pasted  “He captured all their vigrahas which were made of gold and other precious stones” must be an interpretation of the word “mani-pratima”; “mani” refering to ‘precious’ or ‘jewel’, and “pratima” meaning image. This doesn’t really mean image of Buddha.

For a moment let us assume that there are some other references which indicates so. Even then, was it idol that was melted or was it Deity that was melted? Where is the question of having a Deity without following Vedic guidance?!

Even today we do melt gold coins with impression of SriMahaLaskhmi and use it, don’t we?

So, even if Parakala-kavi melted an image, that is not wrong. Let us remember that even we do the same.

adiyen dasan.

 

5 days ago

Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha!

Very true swamy!

The description of buddha’s diety/idol is give in some commentaries. that is why probably Shravan swamy has raised this question.

But as you  have pointed out, yes Buddhism dont have the concept of Diety vs idol as they dont believe in God nor do they believe in Vedas.

Adiyen

Thirukachidaasanudasan

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0 5 days ago

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Namaskaram Enpanifan Swami & All Swami’s,

With Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Swami’s Aasrivdham, Adiyen will share few details. Though devareer’s attempt to search for Velukkudi Swami’s referred slokam meaning is great and appreciated, the meaning as posted  “He defeated them through his verbal intellect itself” is not correct.

To understand Why Thirumnagai Alwar melted Buddha Idol?, one needs to understand few  baselines from PoorvAcharyAs upanyasams delivered via revered GyanaAcharyas like Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami and other great Swami Ramanuja Sambhandhi Upanyasakars.

  1. Background on Why Perumal Took Buddha Avataram initially,
  2. Why Perumal didnot want to continue that Philosophy for the Entirety of all times/yugas,
  3. What are Thirumangai Alwar’s Poorva Prapatthi activities,
  4. After Prapatthi (Uttara Prapatthi), there are two types of Kainkaryam one is Sheshatvam and another is Parathanthriyam or one can do both combo?
  5. Why Thirumangai Alwar melted the idol, did HE do it upon His wish or whose wish?
  6. How Thirumangai Alwar used HIS Poorva Prapatthi vaasanaas/activities to do Kainkaryam to Sriman NarayanAn after prapatthi (Uttara Prapatthi). Did HE utilize Sheshatvam or Parathantriyam for melting Buddha idol. This question 6 is in relation and continuation of the question 5.

So Adiyen will request devotees to listen to the Parashara Bhattar Swami’s Sri Ranga Rajastavam upanyasam as referred by Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami.

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayacharyAr) Dasan.

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Namskaram to all Bhagavathas,
Srimate Ramanujaya Namaha!

It looks like my post has gotten a lot bigger within a short time. My main reason of this post was due to concern towards Thirumangai Alwar’s reputation taking a hit from people of other faiths.

In Wikipedia it’s even mentioned that he killed many people to do kainkaryam to Perumal. I am not evaluating his character, but in recent times Vaishnavas are being criticized too much. So that’s why I posted this question.

Adiyen

Kindly let me know which wiki link it is. Wiki is editable. So, either we can edit it or we can flag it.

இலையாழ்வார் ஸ்வாமி, நமஸ்காரம்.

please check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirumangai_Alvar#Interaction_with_other_faiths

I have edited based on my limited knowledge from this thread. Since you have heard our Velukkudi swammi’s upanyasam (and other acharyas) could you please make further edits to this article as appropriate. Thank you very much.

அடியேன் தாசன்.

I am sorry. Should have been இளையாழ்வார் ஸ்வாமி. not இலையாழ்வார்.

kindly forgive me.

Shravan swamy, please keep up your vigilance. Let us collectively engage in this kainkaryam of keeping the wi ki information on Vaishnava acharyas factful and free from malice.

5 days ago

This thread is nicely setting the stage for the upcoming Kaarthigai Nakshatra (Nov 29th kaarthigai  14th) which is Alwaar’s thirunakshatram.

Adiyen

 

Very true Kambandasan Swami. I am planning to create even more threads in the future to wipe off the various threats to Vaishnavam. Thanks for your motivation, Swami.

adiyen

ஷ்ரவணன் ஸ்வாமி, தாங்கள் அடியேனிடமிருந்தா ஊக்கம் பெருகிறீர்? என்ன விந்தை!! ஊக்கத்திற்கும் செயலாக்கத்திற்கும் கடலாக நம் ஸ்வாமி இருக்கையில், ஏதோ சிறு சிப்பி துகலில் தேங்கிய தண்ணீர் துளி போல் உள்ள அடியேனிடம் இருந்து தாங்கள் என்ன பெற கூடும்?

தாங்கள் சும்மா அடியேனை ஊக்குவிப்பதற்காக சொல்கிறீர் போலும். நன்றி ஸ்வாமி.

அடியேந் தாசன்.  

நமஸ்காரம் கம்பன்தாசன் சுவாமி,

நம் வேளுக்குடி சுவாமி நமக்கு அதிகமாக ஊக்கம் கொடுத்தாலும், இப்படி dharma-sandeha பகுதியில் அடியேனிடம் personal ஆக ஊக்கம் கொடுத்தது தாங்கள் தானே.

What to do Swami, since there are some threats to Vaishnavam, அடியேன் has to create these type of threads here. It is our “capital letter” to see all those malicious information in the internet :))

அடியேன்

கேள்வி கேட்பவர்: பால் எங்கிருந்து கிடைக்கிறது?

ஷ்ரவணன்: பால் பாக்கட்!!

கேள்வி கேட்டவர்: NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

(பி கு: NNNNNNNNNNN = “எல்லாம் ‘n-capital letter’ “) 

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1 4 days ago

The posts and responses should not ridicule others.

adiyen

Jayaram swamy,

kindly note this is not at all a ridicule. Shravan swamy, could you kindly explain to Jayaram swamy what kind of word play we are having here.

adiyen dasan.

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Namaskaram Jayaram Swami,

The word capital letter means தலையெழுத்து. That’s the code word known only to அடியேன் and கம்பன்தாசன் சுவாமி.

Please forgive us if it was sensitive 🙏

அடியேன்

4 days ago

Noted.

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