Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha,
In a a recent upanyasam , Swami confirmed that both Sanskrit and Tamil are anaadi.
please hear between minute 6 to minute 8..
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,
Namaskaram Enpanifan Swami,
Yes, adiyen gas also heard Velukkudi Swami saying both Tamil and Sanskrit care Anaadhi.
At the same time, Swami has also said that Vedas are Shabtha Pramaanam, means Shruthi and Smrithi (by smaranam and by telling/ hearing) not in written language.
So how both languages are Anaadhi?
So with Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami’s Aasirvadham, here is how we need to connect both the dots
“Anaadhi” term is generally used in two types of situations,
1) When there is No Start date, or,
2) When there is a start date but that start date cannot be located or difficult to day it in words, since we can only day a date verbally with some amount of zeros only, beyond that we cannot we say as an example 1 followers by 17 zeros is hundred zillion, and so on, beyond some point we say it is “Anaadhi”.
So yes, Vedas are Shabtha Pramaanam (not written in any language) as Swami’s says and yes Tamil/Sanskrit are Anaadhi since we don’t know at what point the Shabtha Pramaanam Vedas were written in a language, so hence it is said as Anaadhi, but the Vedas were first written in “Archaic Tamil” language as examples laid out in the initial thread. That Tamil is not same as present Tamil, you can see how it Transformed from Archaic Tamil to present one. Later Panini Maharishi was the one who made the Sanskrit Grammer in which he used Archaic Tamil and other Prakritha languages to fit the locality needs to propagate the same Vedic content that was in Archaic Tamil in Kumari Kandam as One Pranava Veda. Panini Maharishi birth place is Gandhara which is the present Middle east. So in very old times Vedic literature were prevailing in those places which got diminished at later stage. There was a huge statue of Panini Maharishi in Pakistan in past. So we think present India border is called Bharath, but it is the entire world that was called as Bharath in past. That’s why when people in Middle East who were originally following Vedas but in Sanskrit language as founded by Panini Maharishi, later diminished due to darkness of age (Kali’s influence), and started following something different and became Mughals and invaded present India prior to British rule, the Indians who were initially following the Vedas in Archaic Tamil (though got destroyed due to flood in Kumari Kandam) has a genetic feeling especially in South side has resistant towards the Sanskrit Vedas. Hence we called the Mughals as Aryans though they don’t follow Vedas, since their ancestors developed Sanskrit.
Hindi is a slang language of Sanskrit.
So this Aryan theory will never go away and hence Tamilians show resistance towards Sanskrit,/Hindi since Sanskrit itself was formed from old Archaic Tamil Grammer and other Prakritha languages Grammer, hence it attained the name as Sanskrit +means corrected language).
Every Acharyan uses the present prevailing language to propogate Vedic content. Like English is most people use presently. Most Scriptures are getting translated in English as well. So at end of Kali Yugha, English will be called Anaadhi, if the traces of this language origin is lost, but the content of the Vedas will exist in some language at that time.
The Nasthikas using Tamil language as a tool is altogether a different issue. We should not mix in Tobit as Sharavanan Swami fears.
Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan
Namaskaaram to all Bhakthas,
ElayaAlwar Swami thank you very much for devareer’s wonderful explanation. Very Sorry to have misunderstood devareer’s intentions….
Adiyen has become confused in recent times and thus, I am not going to participate in this forum for quite a long time. Adiyen probably became very much poisonous. So, adiyen will come back when I have become pure enough to participate in this forum.
So, I thank everyone especially EnPanifan swami, Kambandasan swami and ElayaAlwar swami for many of the beautiful clarifications you’ve all made.
Rig Veda mentioned about sage Agastya. (Ref to 1.170 and 1.179). There is a mention of commentary given by sage Agastya in two languages, Tamil and sanskrit, in 1.179.6. ( Jambunathan’s work). Again there may be difference of opinion in accepting the author. It is one’s choice.
Sage Agastya is mentioned in Rik Veda, then sage Agastya is anaadi and also Tamil is anaadi.
Srimate Ramanujaya Namaha!
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami frequently tells in his lectures that Tamil and Sanskrit are Anadi. Which scripture tells this?
Moreover, I have heard that Agasthya Muni is considered the father of Tamil Language. At the same time there is a Tamil saying which tells “கல் தோன்றி மண் தோன்றாக் காலத்தே முன் தோன்றிய மூத்தக் குடி தமிழ் குடி”. How to reconcile these 2 contradictory facts?
(P.S.: These kind of topics always have the tendency to become controversial. But still adiyen wanted to clarify my doubt on this)
On the 1st question:
That no ancient scripture can say that Tamil and or Sanskrit is/are anAdhi could itself be considered as a proof of their anAdhi status because there may have then been no awareness of Adhi and anAdhi amongst the people!
Dravidian culture is considered by historical scholars to have independently started as a primeval worship of Nature, when conception of Divinity was in its infancy. By the time of Sage Agasthiyar, the Indo-Aryan and Dravidian cultures must have influenced each other, which makes the Sage a common spiritual ancestor for both. Languages like Malayalam, Kannada, Telugu, Marathi etc. emerged by such mixing and later evolved on their own to become major languages by their own right.
On the 2nd question:
By giving Bhagavad Gita, Krishna is considered GeethArcharyan but Vedas were there even before Him.
Today, the equivalent of Bhagavad Gita for the Dravidians is Thiruvalluvar’s Thirukkurall and its grammar probably sets the benchmark for Tamil language because it is most referenced.