Result of prathana depends on the individual’s Adyavasayam… This is relatable swamy.
Preponded or postponding karmas in what sense? Does this mean bagavan escapes me from a karma in order to attain a result but later same karma might hit me back. Pl throw some light on this swamy.
Shamikka prathikiren
Dasan

Thanks for the reply swamy. This one is actually a thought provoking discussion😁

Dasan

Namaskaram Swami

 Does this mean baghavan escapes me from a karma in order to attain a result but later same karma might hit me back. 

For this , Andal in Tirupavai had clearly stated, 5th pasuram, “Poya pizhaiyum pugudaruvaan nindranavum teeyinil doosaagum sheppelor embaavaai”

Meaning, after one does saranagati,the past karmas are vanished just like ( Nerapu- Panju), when Cotton put into fire, it becomes powder and gets lost immediately, similarly after one does saranagati his poorva janma karmas all gets lost, and the remaining Karmas will be there but like ( Tamarai illai Tanneer Pole) i.e water, though is present in the Tamarai leaf, but when shrugged off, the water moisture even can’t be felt, similar is the case for a saranagata’s Karma, i.e it may seem to be there, but when last moments come Bhagwan Shrugges those off and takes us to his abode.

A remaining part of karma( punya or Papa) can encounter a saranagata, but to carefully keep in mind these 2 things.

1- when Papa karma phalan, Dukham comes, then to take it as, bhagwan gave this opportunity to develop VAiragyam and be SthithaPragyan 

2- when a punya karma phalan, sukham comes, then to take it as, bhagwan gave this opportunity to me to develop Vairagyam and be Sthitha Pragyan along side with the understanding that this sukham can make me develop a bond with this samsaram and detachment from Bhagwan, that in any case should not happen since it would not be nice to Thirumal’s Thiru ulam.

Adiyen Dasan 

Adiyen dasan🙂

Srimate ramanujaya nama:
Thanks for very detailed answer swamy with much of patience! Still few things persist which need to be addressed:

1. “Prathanai brings attention of emperuman..” really a fitting one swamy as said by poorvacharyas also highlighted by emperuman himself the word of wish/request from the mouth of a chethana is much needed.
But telling “it may or may not full filled” does it seems bit odd by looking at emperuman’s karunyam and begin said “Sakala phala pradhohi vishnu:” shouldn’t it always work??

2. Adiyen with my little knowledge wouldn’t understand that telling results for that particular action for which i made a ‘prathanai’ is no more on karma but on emperuman’s thiruvullam and also karma may or may not vanish as per our sincerity! Pl throw some light on this swamy adiyen.

3. In case of saranagathi we obstrain from doing any actions pertaining to ‘attainment’ of goal by requesting emperuman to be our upayam whereas here in a simple prathanai we request emperuman to fetch the results but asked to continue with our due action. Can you please differentiate two cases swamy!

Once again i thank you for great answer swamy
Shamikka prathikiren

Dasan

1. telling “it may or may not full filled” does it seems bit odd by looking at emperuman’s karunyam and begin said “Sakala phala pradhohi vishnu:” shouldn’t it always work??

emperuman’s karunyam doesn’t mean it should always work as we think it should. Karunyam is also denying which is not good for us.

For example – if a diabetic person asks I want sugar candy to emperuman and he denies it. But a diabetic person might ask why not? I heard you are karunyam. Because love exists personally. emperuman is like father and mother. He knows denying is sometimes best then granting. We should accept emperuman’s order because we are his property and totally surrendered to him in all circumstances.

2. Adiyen with my little knowledge wouldn’t understand that telling results for that particular action for which i made a ‘prathanai’ is no more on karma but on emperuman’s thiruvullam and also karma may or may not vanish as per our sincerity! Pl throw some light on this swamy adiyen.

It totally depends on what prathanai and in what mood one made.

If one made prathanai the individualistically or egoistic way that I want this and that – this will be accountable to Karma concept.

Example – a jiva submit to emperuman saying – Perumal I don’t know how much Karma or Gyan or whatever I possess, I want you to kindly make everything favourable for my further advancement in the quality of service I do for you by your will

This is prathanai which is beyond all factors like Karma or Gyan or whatever. This is sincerity.

3. In case of saranagathi we obstrain from doing any actions pertaining to ‘attainment’ of goal by requesting emperuman to be our upayam whereas here in a simple prathanai we request emperuman to fetch the results but asked to continue with our due action. Can you please differentiate two cases swamy!

saranagathi is not just a one-time activity. It is the mood in which every akinchan Vaishnava lives always.

The difference between 2 cases is nothing for a senior vaishnava. Both are done with utter surrendering. But for others the difference might arise because of relative thinking.

A saranagathi soul will never do prathanai apart from repeating his/her situation to emperuman and not suggesting what to be done, it’s emperuman’s judgment of what to be done.

Akinchan Dasanudasa

Swami devarir with all patience cleared all aspects of it swamy. Pardon if any mistakes prevails.
Dhanyosmi
Adiyen dasan🙂

Shamikka
One small point to add further with this:

From this adiyen can understand one thing that(pertaining to point2) that emperuman takes complete care holistically for a complete saranagatha(which is impeccable from our level)
But considering a common man like me, say for a simple worldy affair someone wishes emperuman then he takes up this as per the individual’s faith towards peruman and toss it according to his karma?!
But whatever may be one’s apekshai(Ishwaryam, kaivalyam or bhagavan labha) won’t its said bagavan acts very same manner? How for few cases emperuman takes call of karma balance (ofc wrong intentional prathanai stands cancelled which is understandable) and for few intense ones he keeps that above all?

Also one more thing swamy
As you mentioned abt intention of prathanai here comes another one:
Say A and B are sports person and they wanted to win the say. Both prayes i want to win the race and others shouldn’t (As in sports its their need to bang the price in cost of others) How does whole scenario goes?

Devarir with parama kripai and shama listens to adiyen’s ignorant questions and with all patience post such full answers. Dhanyosmi swamy.
Shamikka prathikiren
Dasan

say for a simple worldy affair someone wishes emperuman then he takes up this as per the individual’s faith towards peruman and toss it according to his karma?!

If the wish was his individual self-interest apart from service to emperuman or related to emperuman then – Yes, Karma factor adds up.

In the material world, everything “self-interest” is determined by Karma. Wholly for non vaishnavas. Partly for non-saranagati devotees.

Simple equation –

No saranagati – wish = Karma account + emperuman will

Saranagati – anything = emperuman will

But whatever may be one’s apekshai(Ishwaryam, kaivalyam or bhagavan labha) won’t its said bagavan acts very same manner?

No. Sriman Narayana won’t act same. Although he is equal to all but shows special affection, interest or in fact total interest for his devotees, especially who surrender to him

For Ishwaryam, it’s not a big deal at all for Sriman Narayana. He gives easily. But for moksha and above he orders full saranagati

How for few cases emperuman takes call of karma balance (ofc wrong intentional prathanai stands cancelled which is understandable) and for few intense ones he keeps that above all? As you mentioned abt intention of prathanai here comes another one:
Say A and B are sports person and they wanted to win the say. Both prayes i want to win the race and others shouldn’t (As in sports its their need to bang the price in cost of others) How does whole scenario goes?

emperuman decides on basis of karma + his will. Because this above A & B prayers is mostly a self-interested one.

But if Chakra participates, for example, although he is a pure saranagati prapanna jiva, still it’s not necessarily he wins. Because emperuman knows everything. He only gives best for his saranagath souls

For example – A, B & Chakra participated in the local level competition. The winner is selected for the national level competition held at a different city. Here although Chakra is pure saranagati prapanna jiva still he doesn’t win. Because on the national level competition day there was a big disaster and all participants, who were winners of local competition died or hurted.

This is how Sriman Narayan takes full care and control of prapanna jivas who fully do Saranagati to him

Akinchan dasanudasa

Dhanyosmi swamy
Adiyen dasan😁

Srimate ramanujaya nama:
Such discussion may go long and appear brain stromming but with advice from learnt bagavathas deep issues gets resolved. This entire thread need more time to rethink and assimilate!
Dhanyosmi
Shamikka parathikiren

Adiyen dasan

Namaskaram swami

DEvarir, absolutely correct, such brainstorming are essential and are required as it will certainly involve Satvica Bhagwat Kalyana Guna discussion which would too be liked by Bhagwan, moreover Krishna in Gita states , (chapter 10 slokam, 09) 

Mac-citta mad-gata-prana bodhayantah parasparam

kathayantas ca nityam tushyanti ca ramanti ca

So it will be absolutely desired by Bhagwan and also blissful to be in  his Guna Anubhavam and most importantly how he safeguards and protects Ashratas.

Adiyen

Adiyen 🙂

Dhanyosmi swamy..😀