Mutual venduthal

Updated on July 23, 2020 in Good qualities for human
33 on July 17, 2020

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Swamy Desikan sung Sri Sthuthi for the Andhana.

This shows one thing “if we ask for others it will work”

So adiyen will pray for you
Devareer will pray for me

Dasanudasan

 
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1 on July 17, 2020
This shows one thing “if we ask for others it will work”From vikraminside

Oh! i had a different understanding from that event in Swamy Desikan’s life. My understanding is, if someone like Swamy Desikan prays for ANYTHING for ANYBODY it will be manifested. We do not know which of our desires are good for us (and everyone) which desires are not good. So, we must simply place all our desires to Swamy Desikan (or our own acharyan), and he will kindly help us get only those that are sreyas for us and everyone.

One a lighter note, I had a hilarious experience now. When I first read the title of the post I read it as “muttal venduthal'”. Even aftter opening the post and reading what you have written I still thought you had appropraitely titiled it as muttal venduthal. It took me a while before I realised my mistake i reading…. it is actually ‘mutual’ and not ‘muttal’.! I laughed at my muttal-tanam. 😀

adiyen dasan.

on July 19, 2020

Adiyen 😊

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2 on July 17, 2020

We can pray for others without expectations. Such prayers may work. I really doubt whether mutual prayer will work.

on July 19, 2020

Perumal like to fulfill BhAgavathA’s wishes especially if its selfless.

on July 22, 2020

If two persons do mutual prayer, then whether selflessness can be there?.

God will fulfill anyone’s (I believe) prayer if it is selfless. I even believe that the prayer can be at any time and any place. It is only the feeling with which it is prayed matters.

This is only my personal belief.

adiyen

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4 on July 17, 2020

@VikramInside – Dude you are unbelievable, Are you Brahman, well educated, rich? All are already acting up in your head😃

on July 17, 2020

@Vikraminside Were you bullied in high school or something? Why so? It seems we have to pray for you.

on July 17, 2020

Dear ‘Udaiyavar’,

can you kindly explain what brings up these concerns from you? Thank you.

Kanbandasan.

on July 17, 2020

Respected and Dear Kambandasan Swami, Concerned about our friend here
मर्कटस्य सुरापानं मध्ये वृश्चिकदंशनं ।
तन्मध्ये भूतसंचारो यद्वा तद्वा भविष्यति ॥

on July 19, 2020

@Udayavar Dhanyosmi Swamy for your blessings
🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️

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2 on July 17, 2020

I get that you are concerned about our friend. But what is that you are concerned about is not clear to me. Can you please state that explicitly, so that we can see whether the concern arises from a genuine cause or a misinterpretation / miscommunication. (a medium like this where we don’t see each other, don’t understand each other properly, there is a lot of room for such miscommunication / misintrepretations)

 

By the way, I didn’t know the meaning of the couplet you have included in your reply. I searched the internet and now I understand it refers to the mind. How tricky the mind is  – it is like a drunken monkey stung by a scorpion and possessed by spirits. Nice metaphor for the mind – not only for specific individuals, but each one of us! So, I realise how important it is for me to watch my mind and be vigilant about how it interprets others’ actions, how it passes judgement about others and if I am not careful it could even make me express spiteful words about others. Thank you for sharing this.

sincerely,

Kambandasan.

on July 17, 2020
I get that you are concerned about our friend. But what is that you are concerned about is not clear to me. Can you please state that explicitlyFrom Kambandasan

Dear Udayavar,

let me explain why I am asking as quoted above. In my understanding, I will be concerned about someone and raise a red flag if:

  1. The person blasphemes Perumal
  2. The person speaks ill of acharyas
  3. The person misrepresents Ramanuja-darshanam
  4. The person is rude and disrespectful to other members on this forum

If any member on this forum commits one of these stated offences, I will raise my concern, hold them accounable and try to get an apology from them, and help them back on track.

But in my observation Vikraminside has not committed any of these offences. So, it is not clear to me why some one should be concerned about him. Hence my question to you.

 

However I have to admit, at times I have been annoyed by some of his statements; but to get annoyed is my fault and there isn’t any fault on his part.  I may not like something, but there are 1000-plus other members on this forum and some of them may like it! Just because I don’t like what he has said doesn’t mean it is wrong. Right or Wrong is judged based on scriptures and acharyas’ teachings; not based on my likes and dislikes. So, if I don’t like some question or statemebt he has posted all I have to do is simply not click on it and move on to other options available. Nobody can compel me to read what he has posted; I have the full freedom to not read his statements and thus not get annoyed.

Despite not liking some of his statements, I have admiration for Vikraminside. He is one of the longest and most active members on this forum. He asks many questions (some of which appear to be silly) because he has taken to heart his guru’s instruction that asking questions is the way to make spiritual progress. Some of his seemingly ‘silly’ questions have developed to very interesting and useful discussion among members. I realised Vikraminside may not be sophisticated in his expressions or the way he presents his ideas. I consider him like Tenali Raman – he appears to be a simpleton; but his contribution is immense. That is one reason I respect him a lot.

Because I respect him a lot, I do appreciate when someone like you is concerned about him; but it is not clear to me why you are concerned about him Kindly explain.

Thank you very much.

yours humbly

Kamban dasan.  

on July 19, 2020

Dhanyosmi Swamy
Let’s talk about Sri Rangan.
There was an interesting analogy from Premi Swamy
How VibheeshaNA was able lift Ranga vimAnam?
Yes he could because his brother Ravana was able to lift Kailasa mountain.
But adiyen feel big difference in this Analogy
It is because of Bhakthi Bhalam of Vibheeshana not just physical bhalam.
If we remember Garuda swamy was not able to lift a single finger if Sriman NArAyaNa. Once bhakthi bhAvam became on top Garuda Swamy was able to lift.
This includes Hanuman Swamy lifting Sanjeevani.

But Krishna lifting Govardhana Giri is nothing when compared to his bhakthAs lifting the heavy weights.
🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️

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2 on July 17, 2020

However I have to admit, at times I have been annoyed by some of his statements; but to get annoyed is my fault and there isn’t any fault on his part.

Respected Kambandasan Swami the same reason, But it’s better as you told i don’t hinder my swaroopam and be patient.

Sri Vikraminside , Kambandasan bhagavathazh thiruvadigale saranam

We might have to guard our own self then

on July 17, 2020

Udayavar swamy, தங்களுக்கும் அடியேனின் பணிவான நமஸ்காரங்கள்.

அடியேன் தாசன்.

on July 19, 2020

Udayavar Swamy
Adiyen take positively because our Velukkudi Swamy has told “if someone points out our mistakes we should be thankful to them”
Devareer thiruvadi bhalam
Namaskaram Swamy
Let’s ponder about PerumaL it will be more heart 💓 fulfilling
Dasanudasan

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11 on July 17, 2020

Relentless disrespect to community/platform and other esteem members should be avoided by everyone.Correct, there is no exception.

Extreme patience and admirable vaishnav qualities should never be taken as weakness or loophole.

Due to reverence to elder members i have to retract.

There will be same impulse from every esteem members.they are just not mentioning or being extremely benevolent and kind due to their vaishnav sadhanaa.

on July 17, 2020

Extreme patience and admirable vaishnav qualities should never be taken as weakness or loophole.Ignoring anyone’s faults by other respected elders and taking high road is not an breeding ground or encouragement for further mischief.

on July 17, 2020

We might have to setup community guidelines like any other platform if this is the case.Self control and due dharmic adherence is the quality cherished by members here and that’s the reason we still don’t have communify guidelines.

If we want to act up we can in our home not in public platform.

on July 17, 2020

It’s not at all since I was bothered but we have elder members even at the range of 70 -80 year old in this great forum.

on July 17, 2020

Do we want elder members or future aspiring bhagavathas or young delicate minds to quit or drive away from this forum due to such activities depleting sanctity? I guess we never want that.

on July 17, 2020

I agree with you, dear Udayavar swamy, that there are certain situations we must take responsible action and we can not remain indifferent.

Disrespect to other members should be avoided; if somebody does that we should weed it out instantly. But honestly I didn’t see any way in which Vikrami-swamy is disrespecting anyone. May be I am blind to it beacuse of my bias (or may be because I just avoided reading some of the posts). If that is the case I beg pardon. But I know for a fact that Vikram-swamy is such a vaishnava who fully understands the danger of disrespecting another vaishnava. If by chance he happens to say something inappropriate he goes on apologising repeatedly (to the extent his repeated apology may seem annoying! 🙂 )

My basic understanding is, if someone is faithful to his acharyan / guru and trying his best (despite whatever limitations he may have), then Perumal has accepted him. If Perumal has accepted, then who am I to find fault with him. Perumal can accept even Putana. Can I find fault with Putana now? If I do so I will will end up distancing myself from Perumal. I have been severely warned by my acharyan – Perumal can accept me depite all my faults; but if I have the fault of finding other’s fault, especially finding faults with His devotees, then I stand no chance in my redemption.

My only job is to find my own faults and weed it out so that I can serve as a better instrument in the kainkaryam assigned to me. If I have a good mutual loving relationship with another person then I can assist that person in his ‘faults’ in an appropriate manner. Otherwise, leave it; his acharyan and Perumal will take care. 

adiyen dasan.

on July 17, 2020

Dear Kambandasan ,Pranams to you and Sri Vikraminside swami,
I have extreme humbleness , I have no problem in even falling on your feet or vikraminside swami’s feet but Its not that it has bothered me , public forums creates huge impact on society and cultivate young minds , i have seen lot of different youths attracted to our tradition due to this forum and enpani.We might try our best to keep them attracted.Ofcourse Perumal will take care of it.

We have to realize this forum , all this enormoud efforts by our Sri Velukudi Krishnan swamy and our acharyas to embrace the vaishnav.

on July 17, 2020

Dear Udayavar swamy, from your posts above I can emphatise the deep and genuineness of your feelings. There must be some specific statements which has given you this concern about the well being of this forum. I am not aware of those statements… may be because I have not read them yet.

Since your feelings are genuine and you feel very important about it, then the appropriate approach is to write a  message where you express your feelings in humble words, and place it for the other person’s consideration. “Swamy, you said such-n-such thing. I am concerned that it may affect the feelings of other members. I am concerned it may misrepresent this forum to new members. People may even mistake Vaishnavas as a whole. So, kindly avoid such post”. Hopefully the other person will take it properly and correct oneself. 

But when the genuine concern is delivered in words that doesn’t sound gentle, then we stand no chance of the other person taking it seriously. 

adiyen dasan.

on July 17, 2020

Dear Kambandasan Swamy I’m humbled by your admirable vaishnav qualities and having high level thinking mindset , just as swamy is concerned raising voice on my posts and actions(same conditions apply of not finding fault when not asked, not close,etc), please encourage on all the same without any bias or blind defense rather consider dharma as benchmark.Swamy is forgetting that you are also subconsciously trying to correct me hence the posts but swami is somehow blocked to do the same when swamy’s friend vikram is doing the same.

Pranams to vikram inside swamy and all bhagavathas, we cannot enter our temples wearing footwear or impure thoughts , we should consider this forum as holy abode of bhagavathas and periyavas ,We should take Dasya swabavam , dharmic , considerate to others when entering this pure sanctious forum just like a temple.We should remember that disrespecting forum is disrespecting members and periyavas.All our activities are recorded , can be used against or for potraying a whole community as its visible to the society.This forum has huge impact on young delicate minds and aspiring bhagavathas more than we ever know.Just because we are anonymous does not mean we can act up.Maybe you might have known this already cos its basic ethics , being considerate and default qualities even for regular society.

Someone who’s asleep has a chance to be woken up but one who’s acting asleep , only acharyas, perumal has to take care.

on July 17, 2020

Alas you know what you did Vikraminside swamy

on July 18, 2020
… your admirable vaishnav qualities and having high level thinking mindsetFrom Udayavar

If you see good qualities in me there are only two reasons: i) my acharyan’s anugraham. ii) your own good qualities that you are able to see good even in me.

when swamy’s friend vikram is doing the sameFrom Udayavar

Vikram swamy is as much my friend as you are or any other member on this forum. In Bhagavad Gita 12 chapter 13 slokam Perumal says: “அத்வேஷ்டா ஸர்வபூதாநாம் மைத்ர…” Eventually in the near future we all are going to meet each other, rejoice and serve together in Vaikuntam. By practising this மைத்ர quality I hope to get there sooner.I am just trying to practise this. (It is much easier to practise this quality in an virtual group than in person!)

please encourage on all the same without any bias or blind defense rather consider dharma as benchmark.From Udayavar

Udayavar swamy, please check this thread: “Swamy adiyenai mannitheera vimochanam unda?” dated 4th July. It shows I have acted as per your suggestion. I have expressed my views to Vikram swamy by gentle words to the best of my abilities. Beyond that how he follows up with that is his business; not mine. 

Secondly, please analyse the situation carefully and see whom I am trying to defend. To me it appears I am trying to defend you from potential offences. It is surprising that it appears differently to you.

we cannot enter our temples wearing footwear or impure thoughtsFrom Udayavar

I fully agree with this criteria without any reservation; but what I am unaware in the current context is what is the impurity expressed by Vikram swamy. In this post on mutual venduthal I did not find any impurity of thought. That too to the extent of questioning his past experiences in life! The kind of questions and the way it was phrased was shocking to me. I didn’t want to jump to a judgement about devereer; so I tried to enquire from you what prompted such a response, and I am still trying to get a grasp of the issue.

just as swamy is concerned raising voice on my posts and actions(same conditions apply of not finding fault when not asked, not close,etc),From Udayavar

I am just trying to understand the issue here; but if it appears I am pointing fingers at you, my apologies. Even considering the fact that I am highlighting your choice of phrase and expression to convey your idea, in doing so I am trying to practise gentle language as sign of my respect to all members on this forum. And through a two-way friendly dialogue I am trying to build my relationship with you…. trying to understand you better and place myself for you to understand me. Once a relationship is established then we may be able to communicate more effectively.

Kindly forgive me if I am going beyond my call of concern. I shall withdraw myself from further discussion on this topic. I believe I have done my part and the rest is upto other members involved in this and Perumal.

adiyen dasan. 

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1 on July 18, 2020

Kambandasan swamy thiruvadigale sharanam
I did not mean it in a wrong way Swamy, Please forgive me as you are being extremely good and we are all trying to help each other here.

Vikraminside swami , thiruthagappanar,thiruthaayar,thirupudhalvan, Sahala aathma bandhus thiruvadigale saranam
Please forgive me as well.Nobody is perfect so I might have done mistakes too sometimes earlier.

I dont lose anything by asking forgiveness since all swamis are bhagavathas whom I respect always.

Let’s preserve the sanctity of the forum🙏🙏🙏

on July 19, 2020

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Udayavar Swamy sorry for making you disturbed adiyen.

Adiyen understand at which points issues could have occurred.

Adiyen have reasoning in each of my questions. Even in BrAhmaNa swabhAvam post adiyen could have continued but didin’t because it could have twists and turns and be misinterpreted. Anyway that was just an analysis of which pAth we should take as a Brahmin.

If you can recollect “SrivaishnavAs fought hard (fiercely) to protect Sri Ranganathan.”

PramANam: Sri Ranga MAhAthmyam

Not sure devareer was in a state of continuation. So adiyen stopped then & there.

Please don’t see anyone at his face value. People who talk sweetly need not be good always.
People who are straightforward upfront need not be bad always.

Pineapple 🍍 is thorny outside but inside its sweet

Maybe you are younger in age so little disturbed.

Adiyen will pray Sriman NArAyaNa for mana shAnthi

Dasanudasan

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0 on July 18, 2020

I am very much touched by the humbleness of Kambandasan swami and Udayavar swami. May Narayanan bless everyone of us.

adiyen

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0 on July 22, 2020

Swamy, enpani 691 is relevant to discussion in this thread.

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0 on July 23, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaye namaha!

Dhanyosmi swami heard enapani 691. Swami said we should try to help others by telling what is right – but with deep politeness and patience and also with the knowledge that we are an instrument of God and the end good result is for Bhagawaan and the other person is Bhagawaan’s property ( not my friend or enemy)

With this understanding if we attempt, we will be detached and not frustrated.

Dhanyosmi.

Adiyen

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