Material effort to get protection

Updated on July 17, 2021 in General
26 on July 12, 2021

Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha,

Namaskaaram to Velukkudi Swami.
Swami, i have a clarification on how to reconcile two different explanations i have heard in recent audios.

1. We have heard that sarangathi is for our spiritual lives and to reach back to kingdom of God..so in that realm whatever effort we put in is not the real means by which we will reach the destination, but out of gratitude and love one is asked to do.
Whereas in material realm, we are asked to take steps to protect our body , duties etc with a mood of rendering service to the Lord.

2.In the recent mukundamaalai series audio 9, definition of a saranagata as given by Sri Parasarabhattar was presented. It was said that amidst danger in forest, one who does not even take to Bhagawaan namam for protection then he is a saranagata.(this indirectly negates material steps as well)

So it is not very clear on how to reconcile these two apparent differences.

Kindly clarify it swami.

Adiyen
Thirukachidaasanudasan

 
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1 on July 13, 2021

Dhanyosmi swami for sharing your thoughts..but in reality when we do take steps the line is very thin..we really do not know if we are doing it as our.effort..as mind.will tell this is Perumaal s indirect arrangement to help , so.it is very subtle and difficult to differentiate.
In the above referenced audio, swami explained in detail that it was the not the case of owns.own protection but even for protection of owns own service a saranagata does not do naamasankeerthanam seeking that protection of service.
This seems to be a very elevated consciousness..

I am very far away from that and even if the above question is clarified, i dont think i can apply the answer immedieately..so on hindsight i realized that i am not qualified to ask this question as i cannot probably apply the answer.

Apologies.
Adiyen
Thirukachidaasanudasan

on July 15, 2021

AchAryAs have prayed PAdukA devi
For issues in Ashramam and next day donation came.

We have recorded events.

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5 on July 13, 2021

enpanifan swamy,

adiyen’s understanding goes this way:

Saranagathan carries out daily anushtanam, does nama sangeerthanam and other procedures consciously. This slowly leads to reverberation of Perumal’s name subconsciously and slowly turns to constant reverberation at subconscious level. At this stage, nama sangeerthanam, when done is additional, at conscious level. 

In a situation described in the audio, such a saranagathan, though do not do nama sangeerthanam, still reverberation of Perumal’s name will be there at subconscious level. But he may not be praying for protection. Perumal, due to the constant connection with the saranagathan will do what best He has to do under that situation. Reverberation of Perumal’s name at subconscious level can also be called nama sangeerthanam.

True. It is difficult to avoid calling Perumal for protection under such a situation for normal saranagathan.

adiyen

on July 13, 2021

Srimate Raamanujaya Namaha!

Dhanyosmi Swami. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is still OK for beginners to call out to Perumaal, but what i understood from the audio was that in such situations an ideal Saranagatha does not even calling Perumaal’s name, i.e. ideally one should not do anything to protect oneself and should have full faith in Lord’s protection. 

Though I cannot practice it probably I can admire and be inspired by Sri Parasara Bhattar’s definition.

Adiyen

Thirukachidaasanudasan.

on July 13, 2021

My comments are indeed on an ideal Saranagathan, though I have not used the word ideal, in the second para.

adiyen

on July 15, 2021

@Enpanifan Swamy
It’s a paradox

“Perumaal’s name, i.e. ideally one should not do anything to protect oneself and should have full faith in Lord’s protection. ”

Having faith in him to protect oneelf is a dependancy. Calling him for protection is allowed there is no Great Mumukshow vs low level mumukshu.

It ui our AgnyayAm we are assigning levels to mumukshu or SharanAgathA

I can’t agree that he cannot be called for.

on July 15, 2021

Or should not be called for as a sharanAgathan

on July 15, 2021

Calling him is the ideal Sharanagathi

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2 on July 13, 2021

Swamy Namaskaram.

Following En Pani topic may be relevant; In forest danger may be in form of wild animals. However, since for an individual who has mastered this quality of Samadarshanam, the wild animals are going to be friendly. That way, there is no need to pray for protection.

Adiyen Ramanujadasan.

on July 13, 2021

Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha!

Dhanyosmi swami,

Yes this is a possibility, but this is perhaps relevant to a yogi ,muni or rishi. Not all Sarangathas are yogi’s. 

Moreover this is a specific example, but in our daily life we do take many steps to protect ourselves.. which seems unavoidable in beginning stages ..

Adiyen

Thirukachidaasanudasan

on July 15, 2021

We are not Jata Bharathar or yogi
The question pertains to us

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0 on July 15, 2021

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Sri Velukkudi Ranganathan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Sri:

If not Ranganathan who else can help?
tvayi rakshati rakshakaihi kimanyai: tvayi cA rakshakai: kimanyai: – Swami Desikan

Unless, we are Jata Bharathar style living, we can ask for material protection from PerumAL.

Adi Shankarae called for Narasimha
Jata Bharathar did not call for any protection

Jata Bharathar came on his own effort – Aneka Janma Samsiddha Bhagavath Gita
Shankarar allowed himself to be taken over

Why did Gajendran called Aadi moolamey?
Why Draupathi called Krishna?
Why Parikshit’s mother called SriKrishna?
Why Vibheeshana fell at SriRama’s lotus feets?

Why our AchAryA pray PAdukA for any real issues in Ashramam?
Sri Ranganatha Paduka
Sri PoorvAchArya PAduka

Perumal is expecting us to call him for help
He expects us to be dependant on him

Just like our father runs the family
Perumal runs his family.
We tell our father only

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy has said
* KAmyArthi
*KaivalyArthi
*BhagavanLABhArthi

All 3 come to RanganAthar only
So a SharanAgathA can also pray to Perumal for material help.
“Sarva DharmAn Parithyajya , mAmekam Sharanam vraja”

Leave all dharmas and catch hold of my lotus feet only the supreme dharma – Sri Krishna

So why SharanagathA should NOT ask for material help to Sri Krishna?

A mumukshu awaits Moksham doesn’t mean he stops living. So, for every day life , Krishna can be called upon to take over.

That too upon his orders
Sri Bhagawath AgnyayA
Sriman NArAyaNa Preethyartham

Dasanudasan

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0 on July 15, 2021

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Vedantha Ramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Sri THIRUKKUDANTHAI ANDAVAN TOLD
” KARMA YOGAM, BHAKTHI YOGAM AND NYANA YOGAM ARE THREE DIFFERENT APPROACHES ALL EQUAL WEIGHTAGE”

SO CONSIDERING NYANA YOGAM IS HIGHER AND OTHER TWO LOWER IS AGYAANAM ONLY

DASANUDASAN

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4 on July 15, 2021

Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha!

Dhanyosmi Vikram Swami, you have read each individual answer and shared your thoughts on each one of them.. Thanks.

So apart for calling out Perumaal’s name, should we take steps  or actions to solve or protect materially or not? 

A story is said where a devotee calls out Perumaal to protect from a tiger and when Perumaal is about to arrive, he finds a stick and starts fighting, seeing which Perumaal leaves it to his strength and goes back..

So on one hand we cannot be lazy and skip our material responsibilities in the name of Sarangathi (which is for spiritual life, but in the above audio it was extended to material life as well)  on the other hand we cannot take action placing faith on our efforts to protect ourselves materially.. So there seems to be a very thin line dividing these two..

Probably we can just take action as recommended by acharyas and Sastras , with the understanding that we are doing it as suggested by them and results will fructify only by Lord’s sanction and desire.

This approach seems OK for normal day to day life but in exceptional cases, it seems to be a challenge to know the right course of action, 

Adiyen

Thirukachidaasanudasan

on July 16, 2021

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Excellent examples Swamy, let’s Analyze
*So apart for calling out Perumaal’s name, should we take steps or actions to solve or protect materially or not?”

👉Gajendran tried his level best then called Perumal
👉Draupathi tried her level best then called Krishna

Never Krishna said stop doing anything. Such a state itself is not possible.

Problem comes “when we think we defend ourselves”

Our approach should be:
“Vishnu is doing via me in every action”

VishNO KarmANi Pashyatha

Vishnubis doing see. We are just a witness.

If you ask Adiyen this Chaithanyam itself is controlled by Vishnu

If Vishnu is creating world in dream state
Same Vishnu created this world in conscious awake state too

Matter resolved by this way we let Perumal to take over.

Muyarchi seyAmal vittAl, Perumal nammai kelvi kekka mAttArA?

Arjunanai Perumal sandai poda solla villaiyA Swamy?

Adiyen trying to say simply this
“Let’s not asign levels to devotion of a sharanAgathA”

PerumAlidam kettuvittAl adhu oru kurai pol thondra kudAthu enbadhu Adiyen AbhiprAyam

ParAshara Bhattar Swamy why he told I don’t know

VishnO karmANi Pashyatha

In fact Thirukkudanthai Andavan Swamy has told there is no “Bhakthi Yogam alone in isolation” , “No only nyAna yogam alone” “No only Karma Yogam alone”

It is a proportionate approach. A nyAna Yogi will have some Karma & Bhakthi

A Bhakthi Yogi will have some Karma and nyAnam

A Karma Yogi will have Bhakthi and nyAnam as well

PerumAL Thiruvadi orey Gathi
Idhukku nAma perumai padanum

DhArAlamA Perumal kitta kekkalAm
Avar kitta mattum dhAn kekkanum

Abheethisthavam by Swamy Desikan is for this purpose oonly
PanchAyudha Sthothram,shOdasha Ayudha sthIthram etc are for this purpose

Why did Maha Rishis asked SrRam to save?

To do dharma. Not just self protection.
If I have two legs, hands only I can do Agni kainkaryam.

YagnyO Yagnena kalpathAm

I need all these to do the yagnya

Dasanudasan

on July 16, 2021

Last 4 lines
Ref: Namalam (don’t want) & Chamakam (want) based on Krishna Premi Anna UpanyAsams

on July 16, 2021

*Namalam & Chamakam

on July 16, 2021

*Namakam & Chamakam

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Humble namaskaram to all.

Beautiful discussion here; it is heartening to see so many saranagathas expressing our respective understanding of ‘saranagathi’. All these are indeed correct, although there may seem to be subtle differences.

Saranagathi is one topic we all have heard eagerly from our swamy (and other periyavas); there is no dearth of explanation. Yet, it appears still our heart is  not satisfied with our respective understanding of saranagathi. Why is this so?

Earlier this week in one upanyasam I heard about Udaiyavar walking to Thirukkottiyuur 18 times to hear the explanation of (saranagathi) charama slokam from Thirukkottiyuur Nambi! This gave me the clarity.

If Udaiyavar himself had to take so much effort to understand saranagathi (atleast, that is the principle he was demonstrating for our sake), then how can we expect to understand the full secret in just a few hearings of the upanyasams? With every hearing and every discussion (as it is happening in this forum) our heart understands a little more, and we are able to apply ourself to saranagathi a little deeper. As we practise more and more saranagathi in our daily life, our understanding of the principle gets deeper and deeper. More and more of the secret is revealed into our heart by acharyan anugraham.

By Acharyas’ anugraham may that day of complete realisation of this secret come very soon.

adiyen dasan.

on July 16, 2021

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Beautifully pointed out
“If Udaiyavar himself had to take so much effort to understand saranagathi (atleast, that is the principle he was demonstrating for our sake), then how can we expect to understand the full secret in just a few hearings of the upanyasams? ”

Yes adiyen is mandha buddhi. Will take long long long time to understand

This is what happens if Adiyen get easy answes from our Velukkudi Swamy.

Think Adiyen should do more kainkaryam to wipe out agyAnam.

Dhanyosmi Swamy for highlighting
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇

Dasanudasan

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3 on July 16, 2021

Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha,

Yes Swami, it will take some time to realize and sink in.

Based on various inputs provided by various Bhagavatas, my understanding is:

1. We should take action/effort in our day to day realm..but those should be in line with what Bhagawaan states as through Sastras and Acharyas.

In Arjuna’s case Krishna was directly present with Him so he came to a conclusion easily (relative to us), for us we need to depend on Acharyas to make the distinction (what is to be done and what is not) as just by reading sastras we cannot make out he distinction in very difficult scenarios

2. Secondly the mood while doing the  action, should be as an instrument to please Krishna, to render service better

3. Finally we need to act as per our realizations and should not imitate exalted devotees.

Adiyen

Thirukachidaasanudasan

 

 

on July 16, 2021

Dhanyosmi EnpaniFan Swamy for raising beautiful discussion.
🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇

on July 17, 2021

We have to thank Sri Velukkudi Swami for the Mukundamaalai upanyasam series..as this discussion started from there only..🙏

on July 17, 2021

Velukkudi Swamy is nyAna dhAthA
No thanks is enough for Swamy
To say in tamil “avarukku thank panni kattupadi aagadhu”
Like Piratti said “How Kuresar doing such annadhAnam? Avarukku eppadi kattupadi aagardhu?” Like that
Ever thankful to Swamy
Like sadhA pashyanthi suraya:
Constantly thankful to Swamy
So no in-between thanks
Marandha dhAna nenaikarthukku?
🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇

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