Kaivalya mukti

Updated 1 day ago in General
21 on July 19, 2021

Namaskaram.

1. adiyen understood, as per vishishtadvaitham one will not reach vaikunatam through kaivalya mukti. Reaching vaikuntam is stated to be superior to kaivalya mukti. adiyen also understood that in Muktika Upanishad, Rama mentioned to Hanuman that Kaivalya mukti is the ultimate liberation. Request, kindly clarify, why there is difference in mentioning the ultimate mukti, is it due to difference in school of philosophy?.

2. In the case of Kaivalya mukti, atmas are stated not to take rebirth and continue to exist without taking any form, forever. What happens to these atmas during Naimithika pralaya and Praakritika pralaya. Do they keep separate identity or get attached to Lord Narayanan’s body. What happens to these atmas after these pralayas i.e., when creation is restarted. Will these atmas continue it’s journey in leela vibhudhi forever, when leela vibhudhi is in existence.

adiyen

Srivaishnava dasan

 
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Great to hear such questions.

First part ,Yes the same srimad bhagavatam can be explained in advaita way or different school way etc ,depends whose writing உரை, E.g Yoga Vashishta analysis is popular as per advaita and other schools.

Note to the sensitive people:Not underestimating any school here..

Second part ,Kaivalya mukti souls reside after or near viraja river and they are satisfied or enjoying their own jeevatma therefore it’s known as kaivalya or kevalam nature,there is no coming back to Leela vibuthi nor reaching poorna sheshathvam by joining our pitha at nithya vaikuntam.That soul is hanging somewhere so that’s why even if someone is in paathala there is hope,but in kaivalya you are stuck somewhere forever although sole jeevatma enjoyment is also kind of bliss since jeevathma is after all part of paramathma shariram ,but it’s not really bliss at all to enjoy paramthma’s property-jeevathma as our own otherwise it’s called stealing..

on July 20, 2021

Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha,

Surprised to know that Sage Vashistar wrote Yoga Vashishta..!!

Also I have heard that Kaivalya mukthi is an unstable position as the soul inherently wants to render service and hence will have to move from that self centered state.

That is why it is probably said ..”Vaikuntam pugavathu Maanavar Vidhiye!” 

But for advaita or monist school of thoughts they consider the state of kaivalya mukthi as permanent and final.

But irrespective of the two school of thoughts, to understand and reach there.. basics are the same.. to work on removal of “Kaama Krodha lobha madha matscharya..” which is a very long way atleast for me.

Adiyen

Thirukachidaasanudasan. 

 

 

I don’t understand the logic of “basics are the same” about kama krotha etc.   If related to kaivalya mukti here ,neither want to😀 Well i totally understand  and satisfied with basics of  “adiyen”.

Anyway here the above explanation about kaivalya mukti are as per our Acharya Sri Velukudi Swamy upanyasams “basics” are “soul has to yearn for Kainkaryam”,Vaikuntam puguvadhu manavar vidhiye,given the soul is longing for moksha with Kainkaryam.

 

on July 20, 2021

Yes swamy, not exactly same..but in one sense to yearn for kainkaryam one has to work on giving up “kaama krodha ….etc..”..so in that sense the starting point is same.

Yes soul has to long for moksha with kainkaryam..but wondering why this if statement was not added by alwaar.. (while stating vaikuntam puguvadhu mannavar vidiye)either it is implied or not there..not sure.

Adiyen

If you have bhagavat gita upanyasam from our swamy the above is explained in chapter 7 verse 16 about four types of bhakthas,And swamy explains exactly above kaivalya mukti explanations ,it’s not my content ,so if you anyone wants to fool themselves by ” testing me” ,Please feel free.As I always state ,my reference is not self generated or without any reference from swamys upanyasams and authentic Sanskrit source🤣🤣🤣

I totally understand and always matured enough to handle kama krotha lobha madha mathsaryam concept,desires of the world etc and it is not new to me, unlike others presume or not or passive aggressively state,it does not matter to me haha, but justifiable hitham/concern against silly behaviors is not against shashtra or these people will never wake up.

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I’m just wondering ,How bad our hari pitha feels when soul prays for kaivalya mukti to him?That’s why he is greatest paramathma.

If you have bhagavat gita upanyasam from our swamy the above is explained in chapter 7 verse 16 about four types of bhakthas,And swamy explains exactly above kaivalya mukti explanations ,it’s not my content ,so if you anyone wants to fool themselves by ” testing me” ,Please feel free.As I always state ,my reference is not self generated or without any reference from swamys upanyasams and authentic Sanskrit source🤣🤣🤣

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Srimathe Ramanujaya Namah! Sri Sriranga Narayana Jeeyar Swamigal Saranam! Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamigal Thiruvadigale Saranam! 

PD Jayaram Swami, Namaskaram. With Azhwar, Acharyara blessing, adiyen would like to refer to the following Azhwar Paasuram (Thiruvaimozhi 4.1.9 and 4.1.10) 

படி மன்னு பல் கலன் பற்றோடு அறுத்து * ஐம்புலன் வென்று
செடி மன்னு காயம் செற்றார்களும் * ஆங்கு அவனை இல்லார்
குடி மன்னும் இன் சுவர்க்கம் எய்தியும் * மீள்வர்கள் மீள்வு இல்லை
கொடி மன்னு புள் உடை * அண்ணல் கழல்கள் குறுகுமினோ

Even though people may go to heaven if they have renounced the desires of this world and the wealth of the earth they have received from their forefathers, controlling the desires of their five senses, ignoring their bodies, and doing tapas, they will be born again on the earth if they do not think of the highest one with an eagle banner. If you do not want to be born again, worship his feet and you will reach his heaven, Vaikuntam.

குறுக மிக உணர்வத்தொடு * நோக்கி எல்லாம் விட்ட
இறுகல் இறப்பு என்னும் * ஞானிக்கும் அப் பயன் இல்லையேல்
சிறுக நினைவது ஓர் பாசம் உண்டாம் * பின்னும் வீடு இல்லை
மறுகல் இல் ஈசனைப் பற்றி * விடாவிடில் வீடு அஃதே

Sages may control all their desires for the world and think only of kaivalya moksha, but they will not attain Vaikuntam unless they worship the faultless lord and hold to him. They may think of him with love but that will not give them his grace or let them not be born again. Moksha is to approach him, the faultless one, and to grasp him without leaving him.

thiruvAimozhi – 4.1.10 – kuRuga miga

Please listen to our Swami’s Bhagavath Visaya Kalakshepam for a more detailed explanation and hope it will answer your queries. 

adiyen
Badrinarayana Ramanuja Dasan.

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1 on July 21, 2021

Badri Narayanan Swami,

Your citation and explanation bring silent tears.

– Adiyen

எவ்வளவு கீழ்தரமான butthi paaru Badri and srivats trying disprove something which is not my content just out of jealousy? Haha🤣🤣🤣Let’s see whos shedding silent tears in reality.Typical loukika butthi ,it’s because of you kind of people ,that lot of loukikas stay away from vaishnavism.

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6 on July 21, 2021

Badrinarayana Ramanuja Dasan swamy,

Thank you for your quoting.

At the outset, when I checked in the link, kaivalya motcham is given as implied one only (in the commentaries). Anyhow, I have no idea about the details of any pasurams. I intend to start 4000 divya prabhandham after I listen / read a couple of scriptures, including SriBhashyam, presently at hand.

I raised this point, since I had a thought that meditation, on other than Lord Narayanan, is not expected to get Vaikunta Prapthi.

I happened to listen to a video on Vedanta class, within 30 mins of my posting this thread and got the answer for my second portion. Had I listened to it 30 mins earlier, I would not have posted. On the first portion, my posting itself raises a query whether it is due to difference in schools of philosophy.

However, if Sri. Velukkudi Krishnan swamy renders an audio, we will get more clarity.

adiyen

Sri @pd_jayaram Swami, glad that you found the answer to the second part of the question. The reference to Kaivalya Moksham is not implicit. Sri Velukkudi Swamigal in Bhgavath Visayam Upanyasam file no. 798 Time 0.14.00 clearly refers Kaivalya Moksham to the word “இறுகல் இறப்பு” (ஆத்மாவில் மட்டும் விருப்பம் கொண்டவனான) referred in the pasuram. Praying to the Divya Dampatis that Devareer will soon get an opportunity to enjoy the utmost beautiful and priceless treasure called the Sri Sookthis rendered by our Azhwars and blessed by our Acharyars to us. 

adiyen 

on July 22, 2021

Badrinarayana Ramanuja Dasan swamy,

Thank you for the information with time element. Is Bhgavath Visayam Upanyasam available online or for a price.

adiyen’s special thanks for your prayer. I would like to mention that recently I procured Devimargal Vaibhavam, Purusha Suktam, Dasa Upanishad and Sri Bhashyam – Vedartha Sangraham. Need time to complete these. Hope Devimargal Vaibhavam will include Sri Sookthis.

adiyen

Devareer can also refer to some of the pasurams where Azhwars talk in detail about kaivalyam is lower and in fact, it’s a punishment even though it’s granted by Him.  

http://divyaprabandham.koyil.org/index.php/page/1/?s=kaivalya

on July 22, 2021

Thank you swamy.

I dont understand what is trying to accomplished here 🤣🤣🤣,Are you trying to disprove what our swami explained about kaivalya moksham or what?bhagavat gita upanyasam from our swamy the above is explained in chapter 7 verse 16 about four types of bhakthas,And swamy explains exactly above kaivalya mukti explanations that was stated by Adiyen as well Pd Jayaram query refers to. Try whatever you want to Mr.Badri but it does not diminish the truth stated Feel free to do so haha🤣🤣

Still what Adiyen referenced from velukudi swamy bhagavat gita upanyasam about kaivalya has not been disproved,I’m waiting…

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0 on July 22, 2021

 

bhAgavatha apachAram as listed in the following link:

http://pillai.koyil.org/index.php/2018/11/beginners-guide-apacharams/

The following are listed as bhAgavatha apachAram.

1.Considering other SrIvaishNavas equal to us. We should always consider ourselves lower than other SrIvaishNavas .

2.We should not hurt anyone both physically and mentally.

3.Disrespecting a SrIvaishNava based on his/her birth, knowledge, acts, wealth, place of living, colour etc must be avoided.

This is for the information for those who want to follow. Kindly do not respond to this post. I intend to take a break for sometime and hence, will not respond.

adiyen

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Koyil.org Swamy explained the same thing referred by Adiyen in my first comment in this thread about kaivalyan staying in hanging state after viraja river experiencing his own athma,doomed forever neither coming back to Leela nor going to sri vaikuntam ,but he stays right after viraja and what velukudi swami has explained in bhagavat gita chapter 7 verse 26 starting 9:00 approx.So futile efforts to disprove truth has gone to waste as usual Ishvaro Rakshathu🤣🤣🤣

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