Is buddhi of surrendered devotee controlled by God?

Updated on May 11, 2018 in General
11 on May 7, 2018

Aneka Koti Namaskaarams of Daasanu Daasan Srinivasan to Shri Velukkudi Swamy.

Swamy. Adiyen understand that our buddhi is stated as the reason for humans accumulating karma, because we always make a choice using our buddhi.

Even in Upanishads, say for example Kenopanishad, the question asked is, “Directed by whom the senses, mind and prana functions?” and the answer given is, “It is because of Brahmam.” No where, Buddhi is mentioned as functioning by God.

We make choices using buddhi and that’s why we hold responsibility of karma.

How the buddhi of a surrendered devotee works? In this case, is buddhi also controlled by God, such that the Prapanna always moves towards Moksha or buddhi still works on the will of Prapanna?

Adiyen request Devarir to clear my Agyanam in this regard.

Daasanu Daasan

Sarvam Shri Krishnaarpanam!

 
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0 on May 8, 2018

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

As per Swami’s upanyasam the end result is mOksham. The buddhi is still under Jeeva swAthanthriyam. Adiyen can experience practically.

Dasanudasan

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Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,

 

Some simple translations of “Senniyonghu” paasuram 463 from PeriyaAzhwar ThiruMozhi.

 

senniyOngu* thaN thiruvEnkatam udaiyaay!* ulahu-
thannai vaazha n^inRa n^ambee!* dhaamOdharaa! sadhiraa!*
ennaiyum en udaimaiyaiyum* un sakkarap poRiyoRRik koNdu*
ninnaruLE purindhirundhEn* ini en thirukkuRippE? (2) 1.

O Lord of cool Tiruvenkatam where mountains rise high, waiting to give succor to the world of mortals, O Damodara, most wise! My body and soul are branded with your discus emblem; I wait to receive your command. Pray what do you intend for me?.

 

Third line “ennaiyum en udaimaiyaiyum* un sakkarap poRiyoRRik koNdu*,

ennayum:  means myself (Athma)

en uadamayayum : means my belongings like body (Udal), Buddhi, Manasu.

un sakkarap poRiyoRRik koNdu: means having Shanku and Chakkram impresssions on my shoulders (Panch samskaram) and waiting for your command to do Kainkaryam.

Both myself (Athma) and my Belongings (Body, Bhuddhi, Manasu) are at YOUR lotus feet for your service.

 

Please refer to Swami’s detailed Upanyasam in this topic.

 

Adiyen Sri Veluukudi Krishna Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

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Sr i Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruvae Namaha,

Further reference from Enpani 951, chapter 12 Bhagavat Gita slokam about Mind and Bhuddhi. Though Athma is surrendered during Prapatti by a prapannan, Mind and Bhuddhi also needs to be surrendered on HIS lotus feet to make HIM as our controller.

“Mind thinks BhagavAn Gunas. At the same time, Mind also propells Doubhts. So the Bhuddhi (nothing but Dharma Bhoota Gyanam of Athma) is needed to control the Mind, so both Mind and Bhuddhi are channalized towards BhagavAn SriKrishna”.

Mind: A tool to THINK.
Bhuddhi: A tool to DECIDE.

Example:
Mind thinks Perumal is great personality and has great gunas. He is Brahmam (Huge, cannot be seen). Also Brahmam can be seen in Archai deity forms. At the same time Mind also starts analysing like, If Perumal is huge and cannot be seen, then how come He can be seen in deity forms and similar other scenarios and we keep fluctuating.

This means, Mind is enjoying Perumal’s Kalyana gunas, but Bhuddhi is not yet surrendered on HIS feet, which is needed to control the Mind to have a channaluzed thinking about BhagavAn with no doubhts.

So SriKrishna says,

“மனதை என்னிடத்தில் வைப்பாய்,
புதிதியை என்னிடத்தில் செலுத்துவாய்,
இதை செய்தாய் ஆனால் என்னிடத்தில் வசிப்பாய்,
இதில் எந்த சந்தேகமும் இல்லை”.

One who has attained this state (Mind and Bhuddhi on HIS lotus feet) after prapatti Athma samarpanam (prapannan), for those, yes we can say Bhagavan is our controller, like Great Ramanujacharya, Asmadh Acharyas, Sri Velukkudi Swami etc…

For those who have not surrendered the Bhuddhi, then the doubhts propelled by Mind is not controlled by Bhuddhi, and we are the controller of mind, though we (prapannan) have surrendered Athma, like great Agyanis like adiyen etc….But, the solution for such Agyanis is to surrender the Bhuddhi also to Acharyan Lotus feet instead if SrKrishna’s lotus feet, then Acharyan is the controller of our Mind. This is called “Thadutthu Aatkollum Thanmai ” which Swami Ramanujar exhibits to HIS devotees.

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrisharpanam Asthu.

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Thanks to both Bakthas for response

Daasanu Daasan Srinivasan

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3 on May 9, 2018

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Technically, Athma controls buddhi controls manas controls indriyam controls shareeram.

When we say Athma samarpanam, we surrender everything that is controlled by it.

Still we have Jeeva swAthanthriyam given by PerumAl in this prArabdham.

Same Velukkudi Swamy has told “God does not interfere in each of our day to day actions, it is determined by us” . This is applicable even after SharanAgathi in this prArabdham.

Let’s say if you want to eat vengaya pakoda after SharanAgathi Perumal is not going to hold your hands from eating it. That’s eventually true.

We know certain things are pre-destined but interestingly there will be no swArasyam in life if there is no Jeeva swAthanthriyam.

What if HiranyAkshan, Hiranyakashipu, Ravanan obliged to Perumal. Yedhu Ramayanam yedhu Mahabharatham?

After SharanAgathi Vibheeshana swamy wanted to take lord Ranganatha to Srilanka. PerumAl’s grand Sankalpam stopped at Srirangam on the way.

In my opinion as per Perumal’s hrudhayam he did not want to go to place where his wife Sri Mahalakshmi was tortured. Even though it was planned and executed his manas did not like it.

Srimad Ramayanam was an act to please dEvas and not us. It did not have happy ending by the way.

If it was happy just for the sake of argument, our Azhwar would not have sung:
நடந்த கால்கள் நொந்தவோ

Did your legs pain?

So PerumAl did not like the avathAram. NamakkAga kashtangal anubhavithAr.

Sorry engayO Amrambichu yengayO poiduthu.

Dasanudasan

on May 9, 2018

Namakku eppomey Serthi Dharisanam dhan pidikkum
Dasanudasan

on May 9, 2018

Dear Bhaaktas

The question raised is interesting as it is slightly self contradicting.

A devotee is called surrendered only when he surrenders his mind and buddhi as well.

The free will is still there, the choice made here is to surrender intelligence and mind to  God’s will.

For example God wants a devotee to do a particular kainkaryam, a surrendered devotee will choose to do that kainkaryam by his free will.

When he chooses other way he is no longer in surrendered position.

In the same way in the example described above if a devotee who has undergone samsrayam wants to eat prohibited items. there are few possibilities that will happen- the hotel person may say no stock, there will be no time, exactly at that time some devotee friend will join us for having food together, or an enpani push notification will pop up , or Perumal will attract us to some sathivik food of fruits etc.. But some times even if these happen or does not happen, there is a chance that the devotee eats the so called prohibited item, when that happens , during that instance the devotee is unsurrendered , so his buddhi is uncontrolled, then he has to surrender again (mentally) to reinstate.

so in conclusion physical surrender happens only once, actual surrender happens moment to moment and free will has to be exercised for that.

adiyen

 

 

 

on May 11, 2018

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

” so his buddhi is uncontrolled, then he has to surrender again (mentally) to reinstate.”
– As per ShAstram surrender can happen only once Swami. We can’t do two or multiple times surrender. Physical or mental both means AthmA only. Achith (body) need not surrender in first place.

Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy’s has told we can do SharanAgathi for multiple purpose.

Same Velukkudi Swamy has told it can be done once.

So It means if the purpose is mOksham and as a Mumukshu the surrender can happen only once.

For other sAmsAric purpose we can do multiple times.

Like Vibheeshana SharanAgathi, Drowpathi SharanAgathi etc

Vibheeshana = For Rajyam
Dorwpathuli = For protection

This is actually a very deep question and think we can resolve it only in kAlakshEpam of Sri Swami

Dasanudasan

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Both sounds right. May Adiyen request Shri Velukkudi Swamy to throw some light on Jiva Swathantaryam after Surrender.

Can we say, Jiva has Independence and his buddhi is still in his own control even after surrender but God takes responsibility to make his thoughts success or not depending on the path chosen?

If that is the case, it’s still confusing because, even for a devotee who has not surrendered, he may desire for anything but the actions are controlled by God based on what he deserves, irrespective of whether he has chosen the path of Moksha or not. Hope I haven’t confused.

Daasanu Daasan Srinivasan

on May 11, 2018

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Every fruit (phalam result) of action is based on karma. Even after self surrender the prArabdha karmA exists.

The sanchitha karmA (previous janmAs) is “Theeyinil thoosAgum” burned into ashes. Only current birth actions exists.

So we are driven by prArabdham. The end of our life is determined by PerumAl. Our punyA karmAs are shared to our well wishers and pApa karmA are shared to our enemies. This includes sons and daughters (mAthA pithA seiyum Karman makkal thalaiyiley)

But onnu nischayam after self surrender Perumal kApAthuvAr (mahA vishwAsam)

Mukkur solluvaar, prahlAdhana Perumal kApAthindEy irundhAr not just at the end.

Dasanudasan

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Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruvae Namaha,

Perfect reference BhagavAta from Swami’s ‘Theeyinil Thoosaagum” upanyasam from Andal Thiruppaavai paasuram.

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrisha Kudumbham.

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