Is brahmam void?

Updated on December 8, 2020 in General
8 on January 31, 2020

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam

Sri:
Adiyen know brhamam is. SaguNam according to Vishishtadvaitam it has Nama Roopam.

Question is, there are major portion of Brahmam which ia “un-created”. Creation is just a small portion of brahmam.

Will it be okay to call the un-created portion of brahmam as “void” in English?

Dasanudasan

 
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0 on November 2, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Namaskaram Vikram Swami,

Regarding devareer’s query “Will it be okay to call the un-created portion of brahmam as “void” in English?“, adiyen will share with Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Swami’s Aasirvadham and BhagavAta Abhimaanam.

Since BrahmaM (Srimana NarayanA) is Spreadout everywhere by HIMSELF as “VIPU“, as well as Inside every Countless Chit (Sentient/JeevAthma) and inside every countless Achit (Insentient/Jada porul) as “VISHNUR“, which directly implies that HE (BrahmaM) is Present everywhere Inside & Outside of everything. The Void would come under the sub category of Ether/Space which is Achit.

So BhagavAn is present is any filled place or in void place. So, definitely HE (BrahmaM) could be called as Void as well, no doubht about that. However the closet word in English that tells HE is VIPU&VISHNUR would be, HE is “OMNIPRESENT“, is adiyen’s thinking.

What is devareer’s thought process?

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayacharyAr) Dasan.

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0 on November 4, 2020

Just like peacock spreads out its feathers brahmam is spread out during shrusti and during pralayam feathers are folded. Prakruthi is temporary and is destroyed during pralayam.. Brahmam is shuddha satva mayam. Its beyond our limited knowledge bound by our karma, but from what Adiyen learnt from arulicheyal there is no ‘void’. Brahmam is everywhere within atma and outside enveloping all existential world at the same time, all the time.

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0 on November 5, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Namaskaram BhagavAta

 

Yes, that is correct as devareer said “Brahmam is everywhere within atma and outside enveloping all existential world at the same time, all the time.”

 

That’s is same as Velukkudi Swami has said BhagavAn is Inside All Achit and Chit as “Vishnur” and as well as spread out everywhere ad “Vipu”, which Adiyen tried to point out in above thread. Out of the Pancha Bhootam, “Akash” is one of the Achit Tatvam which means Space/Ether/Emptiness, so everything is inclusive of BrahmaM.

 

Though it is understood, BrahmAm is Suddha Satvamayam, Adiyen believe Vikram Swami question is, “can we call BrahmaM as void”. Technically, we can call BrahmaM as void, since Emptiness (Akash Achit Tatvam) is a part of BrahmaM as well, but that is not the only thing BrahmaM is comprised of, since BrahmAm is  much beyond with “Anantha Koti Kalyana Gunas

 

The “Peacock analogy” as devareer said is correct as Velukkudi Swami mentioned in “Mundaka Upanishad‘, but after Mahapralayam, Prakrithi is not destroyed, since each Achit tatvam  will be consolidated in reverse order and “LAYAM” on BhagavAn’s Thirumeni as Peacock feather folding, till next Shrishti starts.

 

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan

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0 on December 4, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaya Namaha

No, Void means nothingness. Which is nihilism. Vaishnava Sampradayas don’t call it Void but unmanifested.

Adiyen

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1 on December 5, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Namaskaram “A_Acarya_dasa” Bhakta,

If so, what is difference between “nothingness” and “unmanifested”? During unmanifested state, what is present in there? Isn’t empty space?

Isn’t the synonym word “void” mean same?.

Eitherway,, Poorvacharyas use the word “Aaghaayam / Aakaash ஆகாயம் / आकाश (Space/Ether)” which is one of the Pancha Bhootham Achit elements in BhagavAn’s Thirumeni (Holy Body). So definitely the equivalent synonym English words like nothingness, unmanifested, void mean the same, but Adiyen do agree that based on the specific Vaishava Sampradhayas, some Acharyas may pick one of the synonym English word like unmanifested, which makes it appear like other English words needs to be negated, but it will be ideal to stick to the “original word ஆகாயம் / आकाश meanings”, so that we are not getting carried away by adhering to one of the synonym word like unmanifested.

What is devareer’s thought process about these?

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.

on December 6, 2020

Sri Velukkudi Swamigalukku adiyen namaskaram.
Srivaishnava Bagavathalukum adiyen namaskaram.

With my limited understanding, I would like to say few words.

Brahmam is nirvikaram. It itself is not manifesting or otherwise. It is the Sareeram of Brahmam which is manifested into everything else. And in that, it is only a portion which is manifested. The unmanifested part is not void. It just shows that it is not measurable. Every gunam of Brahmam is of infinity. It cannot be measured and it is true for his swaroopam and rupam as well.

It is same with peacock analogy. Peacock expands its Sareeram and shrinks it. Peacock’s athma is not.

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan.

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1 on December 8, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Namaskaram ntgk Swami,

Devareer is almost there, but little more to get better understanding.

With Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami’s Aasirvadham Adiyen would like to share more details.

BrahmaM = ParamAthma + Chit’s + Achit’s.

ParamAthma = Sriman NarayanA and ONLY ONE IN THIS CATEGORY with Anantha Koti Kalyana Gunas (countless Divine Qualities)

Chit = JeevAthmas (we all) ‘Sentient (Chaitanyam udaya Porul)’ and countless in this category.

Achit = JeevAthmas (we all) ‘Insentient (Jada Porul)’ and countless in this category.

Both countless Chits/Achit’s are Body of ParamAthma as Upanishadhs says
“Yasya Athma Shareeram Athmana vedacha,
Yasya Pritvi Shareeram Pritvina vedacha,
Means, Athma (Chits) and Pritvi (Achit’s) are Shareeram (body) of ME (ParamAthma).

All three entities together is termed as BrahmaM.

In Achit’s Tatvam, there are five Pancha Bhootham நிர் (water), நிலம் (Land), வாயு (Air), அக்னி (Fire), ஆகாசம் (Space/Ether).

So this Space/Ether is emptiness which is one of the Pancha bootsm in Achit Tatvam which is included inside BrahmaM.

The Peacock analogy that Velukkudi Swami says in Mundaka Upanishad is for creation time. To understand this clearly when Peacock UNFOLDS it’s feathers, it is BhagavAn’s Creation and when Peacock FOLDS it’s feathers, it is dissolution and not destruction.

So when peacock folds it’s feathers back to its body, what happened to the area where the feather was initially spread out. It is an empty space/ether (Achit Tatvam) which is the unmanifested area.

So void/emptiness is included in BrahmaM but doesn’t affect ParamAthma (Peacock) itself.

So BrahmAm cannot be called void, but can be said as void/space/ether is included in BrahmaM, since BrahmAm has Anantha Koti Kalyana Gunas.

Does it help to visualize.

I think devareer us just reading in last posts and interpreting, but please read through the sequence from initial thread.

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan

on December 8, 2020

Typo error correction when Adiyen copy pasted from Adiyen’s own above “Chit” sentence to make the “Achit sentence.

Achit = JeevAthmas (we all) ‘Insentient (Jada Porul)’ and countless in this category.

Please ignore the “JeevAthmas (we all) “, it is:
Achit = ‘Insentient (Jada Porul)’ and countless in this category.

Also the better word is Peacock feather ‘Retraction” than “dissolution” since BhagavAn during Mahapralayam retracts/consolidates each of the Pancha Bhootham Achit Tatvams in backward sequence.

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