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How to avoid devathAnthram?

Updated on August 5, 2021 in Avatars
13 on July 25, 2021

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Sri Velukkudi Ranganathan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Sri:

This question should be viewed by “open mind” by all BhAgavathas as it is my genuine question/concern.

Advance apologies to Sri EnPaNiFan Swamy 🙏🙏🙏🙏

Adiyen grew up in a Kshetram where there are many Shiva temples. Nava Lingam temples around me. I had been to all 9 lingam temples during a pradhosham night before bharanyAsam and samAshrayanam during childhood days with my friends. I grew up in a school with Shiva Parvathi prayers.

ஞான வைராக்ய சித்தியர்தம்
பிக்ஷான் தேஹி ச பார்வதி

Even as of today we say
ஈஸ்வர உவாச:
ஶ்ரீ ராம ராம ராம இதி

There are many of we SriVaishnavites as of today acknowledging Mari Amman in villages on certain occasions like Thiru veedhi ula. Kuri Solludhal etc. May be they are showing unity.

This expands to beleif system like Velankanni Mother and many Hindus are going there.

I have seen many SriVaishnavites in villages saying “Allah koil”.

Though I respect all deities in any form , I am afraid , Perumal is testing me every now and then.

Ivala sevicha vayitha vali poradhu. Avala sevicha thala vali poradhu.

If we worship this God , my stomach ache is gone, if I worship that God my headache is Gone.

Does this not lead to distortion or refraction or deviation to our ekAgraha chinthanai on Perumal?

Or should we think Perumal is helping as mother Mary or Allah or Mari Amman or Shiva or whoever?

Like
தெய்வம் மனுஷ்ய ரூபேன
தெய்வம் தேவ ரூபேன?

Many staunch SriVaishnavites (incl preachers) whom I have revered for years have spoken about other devathAs as well.

I used to understand as “That Swamy is strengthening their belief system on their God”.

Adiyen could not find any valid explanation beyond it.

How to avoid devathAnthram?

How to get “Twameva sarvam Mama Deva Deva on Perumal” devotion? வாளால் அறுத்து சுடினும் மருத்துவன் பால் மாளாத காதல் கொண்ட நோயாளன் போல் எப்போ வரும்?

Amma , appa, payyan, wife yaru mela ponAlum paravAillai un thiruvadiyai vida koodathu Krishna endra Bhakthi eppo varum? Idhu sAdhiyamA?

If I cannot ask this question here, where else I will ask?

If anything wrong please forgive my mistakes my Guru

If this question is irrelevant Admins please delete it.

Adiyen is being pressurized to support a supposed favour rendered by another devathA on a Venduthal (by another person for child) where Perumal did not help on time it seems so it is okay to complete the “deal” & close it once & for all. I am sure this is not a “once for all” thing.

Not sure why Perumal is not taking me via Brahma randhram , what is he thinking about?

I have told my child is not important let Perumal take but only PerumAL is important.

Sought one day time to them (loved ones). I can pay heed to them for their satisfaction & close it or be stubborn in my stance?

ரக்ஷியஸ்யசி இதி விஷ்வாச:

Please note:
@Sri Udayavar Swamy this question is not to provoke / trigger you. Please don’t attach your agenda to it even though it may seem to have mine.

🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇🙇
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Dasanudasan

 
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1 on July 26, 2021

Vikraminside swamy,

I am breaking my word of not responding, but only for this post, since this is concerned with a child. I am giving a hint in this regard for you to decide.

Few days back I read the following in a commentary on SriBashaym.

“An important point to be noted in this context is that Lord Sriman Narayana will cancel prapatti done by a person if he continuously devoted towards a Devatantara like Siva, Murugan, Ganesha, Ayyappan and others and if a person commits sin or apachara with Brahmavits and Bhagavathas who are extremely devoted towards Sriman Narayana, the supreme being.”

From your post it is not clear whether venduthal is fulfilled by other god.

Based on the above commentary, I look at as:

If it is fulfilled, it can be taken as the play by Perumal through other god, otherwise if one has confidence of fulfilling later, it can be taken as Perumal’s wish. We believe that Perumal is antharyami for even other god. Venduthal can be either rendered to the other god or to Perumal. One has to a stand it as one time issue. There are some, who takes such opportunity to change the person to their belief. Cautious. Afterall, child’s future is also important, besides thinking as karma.

I intend to continue to post once the decorum of posting improves.

adiyen

on August 4, 2021

pd_jayaram
Dhanyosmi Swamy

“I intend to continue to post once the decorum of posting improves.”
Adiyen apologies for any apachAram

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1 on July 26, 2021

Srimate Raamnujaye Namaha

Vikram Swamy, please consider some of the earlier threads which are in some way related to this discussion

https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/what-is-the-difference-between-seeing-krishna-in-everything-vs-everything-as-krishna/

https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/respecting-others-other-than-lord-krishna/

https://www.kinchit.org/dharma-sandeha/thread/kashi-and-sri-vaishnavam/

These verses form Chapter 7 of BG are also relevant.

TEXT 20:   Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures. TEXT 21:   I am in everyone’s heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship some demigod, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to that particular deity. TEXT 22:   Endowed with such a faith, he endeavors to worship a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone.

BG 3.10 and 3.11 is also relevant: “In the beginning of creation, the Lord of all creatures sent forth generations of men and demigods, along with sacrifices for Viṣṇu, and blessed them by saying, “Be thou happy by this yajña [sacrifice] because its performance will bestow upon you everything desirable for living happily and achieving liberation.”

3.11 “The demigods, being pleased by sacrifices, will also please you, and thus, by cooperation between men and demigods, prosperity will reign for all.”

So worshipping/surrendering to  Devatas independent of Krishna is not recommended but respecting them in relation to Supreme Lord is the recommended view.

But very exalted pure devotees who have completely renounced all material desires ( like How Sri Vedanta Desikan did not even touch Gold coins with hand.. Such persons out of sheer love for Krishna may not want to praise other deities .(they spend 24 hours in thought of Krishna,  so this question does not arise for them.)

So to be fair one should not spend his money , time and adorations on anybody in this world (Celebrities, etc) , except Acharya, Bhagavatas and Bhagawaan.  Until one comes to this point it is not fair to  worry about whether one is worshipping Devatas or not.(But of course ideally one needs to have proper understanding and proper motivation )

How do we see the fact that Arjuna was asked by Krishna to do tapas to get Pasupathastram through Lord Shiva?

So the action itself cannot be judged, internal motive, order by Acharya and Bhagawaan all play a role.

So, the answer depends on the individual person’s consciousness on how he is situated in other aspects of life. So there is no one answer for everybody. 

Swamy, also this question has to be asked before venduthal, so not sure if it is appropriate to ask at this stage. Also, if somebody else has done the venduthal, it is they who should decide and fulfill it. However, they can do it as doing it for a Bhagavatha, seeing the sambandha with Krishna.

(Lord Shiva is not usually categorized in the general devatha category but it depends on different school of thoughts, however this verse may be relevant)   

ŚB 12.13.16

nimna-gānāṁ yathā gaṅgādevānām acyuto

yathāvaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥpurāṇānām idam tathā

Just as the Gaṅgā is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acyuta the supreme among deities and Lord Śambhu [Śiva] the greatest of Vaiṣṇavas, so Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the greatest of all Purāṇas.

Swamy, I have shared my thoughts, but you may decide on the various inputs received and those you may receive in future and may make an appropriate decision that suits the situation well and also pleases Krishna. Finally you will have to depend on Paramatma only to help you guide to the right course of action.

Adiyen

Thirukachidasanudasan.

 

 

on August 4, 2021

Dhanyosmi Swamy 🙏🙏🙏🙏

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6 on July 31, 2021

Dear Swamy, I will share my experience. From my childhood days my mother practiced me whichever temple I visit I say as I will go to Perumal temple . So whenever I decided to go any temple “I say I will go to Perumal temple – my friends , neighbors will tell me that hey your going to Vinayagar temple, Siva temple , meenkashi temple why you wrongly mentioning Perumal temple” but for my mind, my voice , my steps think whomsoever I pray it’s Perumal temple only” ! Sivanum Perumal, Muriganum Perumal, vinayagarum Perumal , mariammavum perumal… may be take some example from Andal thayar . Adiyen neechan ramanujadasan

Govindan Narayanan swamy, namaskaram.

This understanding is not in line with Ramanuja darshanam. Kindly enquire from our Velukkudi Swamy (or other such personalities) for clear understanding.

adiyen dasan.

on August 1, 2021

Adiyen namskaram Swamy, periyava thiruvdaigal saranam, yes those practice I was doing on my childhood days. Now I knew the one and only Devadhirajan – Devarajan only who is very much available for me and I no need to look around . Hence the saranagathi to my dear Srinivasan only.

on August 1, 2021

Now trying to follow “uNNum sORu parugu nIr * thinnum vetRilaiyum ellAm kaNNan ” after hearing Swamy Velukkudi upanyasam, Enpani . Need Adiyar, Periyavas, Acharayas, Thayar, Perumal blessings too.

Adiyen, swamy.

Thirukkactchidasanudasan-swamy (enpanifan) has nicely summarised:

So worshipping/surrendering to  Devatas independent of Krishna is not recommended but respecting them in relation to Supreme Lord is the recommended view.From enpanifan

The Devatas are indeed separate individuals just as much as we are separate individuals. So, equating them to our Lord is not appropriate. At the same time not according them due respect is also not appropriate.

As you have rightly said, our surrender is exclusively Lord Narayana, through the lotus feet of our acharyan, Udaiyavar, all the up to Thayar.

dasan

on August 4, 2021

Govindan Narayanan
Dhanyosmi Swamy 🙏🙏🙏🙏

on August 4, 2021

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
To our esteemed group
In Dharma Sandeha

“Surrendering” is different and accepting a help is different correct?

We accept a help from a friend let’s say our friend takes care of our family member,in hospital when we are not around.

So, can’t other devathAs be considered as friends?

Bhakthi sArar Thirumazhisai Azhwar denied help of lord Shiva as Moksham being the objective.

We are not YogeeshwarAs
So, can’t we change the perspective?

Meaning how a friendly help of a friend different from the help of a devathA if the requirement is not Moksham?

Dasanudasan

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0 on August 5, 2021

Swamy,

Small addition. EnPaNi 2179 addresses this question based on vairAgyam

Dasanudasan

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0 on August 5, 2021

Swamy also answered in EnPaNi 2186
பக்தி துன்பம் போக்குமா?
Dasanudasan

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