How is Ranganatha as Krishna.?

Updated on February 22, 2021 in General
8 on February 14, 2021

Srimathe Ramanujaya namah
Vellukudi swamiku pallandu

Adiyen has got question in related with Sri Ranganatha swami. Question is that, we all know that Ranganatha is kuladeivam of Lord Sri Ram,but Sri Rama avatar was in Treta yuga but Krishna’s was in dwapura yuga.
In that case, How did Ikshvaku vamsam worshipped Ranganatha ?Did they see him as Paravasudeva or Vennai thinnum ‘Kanna’.
Also adiyen, came across.
“oruvillaal Onku muNNeer adaiththu ulakangkaL uyya,
seruvilE arakkar kOnaich cheRRa nam sEvakanAr,
maruviya periya kOyil mathiL thiruvarangam ennA,
karuvilE tiruvilAtheer! kAlaththaik kazhikkinReerE.”

Why is Periya perumal been referred as Krishna?how krishna in dwapar yug comes before ram in trete yug?adiyen requesting answer for this swami.
Adiyen ae Kshamika pratikiren, if question was improper..
Adiyen Ramanuja Dasyai

  • Liked by
1 on February 14, 2021

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,


Namaskaram Anjali BhagavAta,


With Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Ammangaar Abhimaanam and Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami’s Aasirvadham, Adiyen would like to SHARE the connections picking from Swami’s different upanyasams as below sequence of events to answer the question,


1) Tretha Yuga is 1,296,000 Bhooloka years (Kali yuga year 4,32,000 × 3).


2) Total 70 Ishvaaku Kings rule this whole Tretha Yuga as Soorya Vamsam (Ishvaaku Dynasty). They are kShatriyas with Great Yogic powers and hence their life span is much larger, like SriRama itself following HiIS own protical of creation, HE ruled upto 11,000 years in Tretha Yugha. Due to their Yogik powers, these Ishvaaku Kings also visit other lokas like Sathya loka (Brahma loka) etc to see Brahma at times.


3) One of the 1st Generation Ishvaaku King visited Brahma loka. He saw Brahma doing ThiruAradhana (Pooja) to Idol of SrimanNarayana in Recklining posture which is the “Original or 1st Ranganatha Perumal”.
After Pooja, Brahma was distributing the Theertham to His family members (His wife Saraswati, His maanaska son Shiva, His daughter-in-law Paarvathi and to His grandsons Ganapathy and Murughan), like how we distribute Therrtham to our family members.
The Ishvaaku King got attracted to Brahma’s ThiruAradhana Perumal and the King requested Brahma, if He can give it to Him so that He can and take Ranganatha Perumal to Bhooloka. Brahma agreed and gave Him His ThiruAradhana Perumal along with the “Koil Alwar(Golden Vimaansm/Sanctum) which is the Ranganatha Perumal and thus BhagavAn came to Ishvaaku dynasty and then on HE is the ThiruAradhana Perumal for the whole Ishvaaku dynasty.


4) Later, due to Devas Sharanagathy on Sriman NarayanA lotus feet to save them from Ravana, HE in Thirupaar Kadal as “Vyuha Vasudevan” took Poorna Avatar as “SriRama” in Ishvaaku Dynasty in middle of Tretha Yugha, so HE could be 35th or 36th King of Ishvaaku dynasty (not sure exact, but Swami says in “Hari Vamsam”). SriRama could have taken Avatar in any dynasty, but HE chose Ishvaaku dynasty because “HE wanted to do ThiruAradhanai to HIMSELF” which is the Ranganatha Perumal who can during 1st generation Ishvaaku King timing. Till SriRama’s regime, Ranganatha Perumal was in Ayodhya Only. Hence only this Perumal is called as “PERIYA PERUMAL” because BhagavAn HIMSELF did ThiruAradhanai to HIMSELF.


5) After Yuddha kaanda (war between SriRama and Ravana) was over, SriRama was giving gift as token of appreciation to all joined in HIS service to get back HIS Alarmel Mangai Sita Piratti. At that time, when it was Vibhishanaa’s turn, SriRama asked Him what do you need. Vibhishanaa said, “I think YOUR secret of success is because of YOUR ThiruAradhanai Perumal, So can Devareer gift me Ranganatha Perumal”. SriRama agreed and gave Him Ranganatha Perumal, but HE said to Vibhishanaa that if you keep Ranganatha Perumal on any ground, then you will not able to Move HIM again,bso make sure when you fly back from here Ayodhya to Lanka, don’t stop anywhere. However, Vibhishanaa had to do Sandhya Vandhanam, so He stopped at Kauveri river bank and kept Ranganatha Perumal on the ground. After Sandhavandhanam,bHe realised about SriRama’s word of caution. He immediately tried to lift Ranganatha Perumal, but HE never moved, which is the Present SriRangam. But Ranganatha Perumal said to Vibhishanaa that “Don’t worry, I will keep facing towards south where Lanka is there to Bless you and your kingdom”,;which is why Ranganatha Perumal recklining posture facing South. Then comes Vyuha Vasudevan’s Poorna Avatar again as SriKrishna in Dwapara Yugha.


6) Next in Kali Yugha is ThirupaanAlwar, who always used to come to other side of the Kauveri river and sing upon Ranganatha Perumal but never entered the Temple on other side of river bank, due to Varattu Gyaana Priests ruling the Temple discriminating the Pure Devotees. We all know to the Priest BhagavAta Apacharam (throwing stone) on Thiruppaan Alwar, Ranganatha Perumal closed HIS sanctum and ordered the Priest to bring Thiruppaan Alwar inside the Temple. So Priest fell on Thiruppaan Alwar lotus feet for forgiveness and carried the Alwar on his shoulders. That’s when Alwar sung the “AmalanAadhiPiraan” paasuram in which Alwar sings Ranganatha Perumal as “கொண்டல் வண்ணனைக் கோவலனாய் வெண்ணைய் உண்ட வாயன்…….”
Which represents Ranganatha as SriKrishna Himself. So from then on We all devotees consider Ranganatha Perumal as SriKrishna due to ThirupaanAlwar words in the Paasuram is our Pramaanam,. Since Sriman NarayanA Himself is SriRama & SriKrishna. It’s for BhagavAt Anubhavam.


Hence the sequence of events of Rananagatha Perumal Travel History from Sathya Loka to Ayodhya to SriRangam and why we call HIM as SriKrishna.


Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.

on February 15, 2021

Srimate Ramanujaya namaha,

Adiyen has heard that avatarams and yugas are even before Krishna appeared in dwapara yuga..people in earlier yugas know him and keep worshipping him.

P.S. Elayalwaar swami thanks for SHARING the history.
But suggest to focus on the topic instead of digressing to controversial topics on who are brahma s family members..most likely this part of to whom brahma was distributing theertha prasadam is not from swami s upanyasams..however if you know of the upanysam see if you can SHARE the name or link.
We have had separate threads to discuss this..where you went silent in the end..but continue to post this in almost all posts even if the topic of discussion does not require it..

Let me pray to Sriman Narayanana to help you overcome this habit.


Show more replies
  • Liked by
0 on February 15, 2021

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,


Additionally, regarding How Ranganatha is SriKrishna?


Reference 1),

As said above Thiruppaan Alwar statement in “AmalanAadhiPiraan” Paasuram.


Reference 2),
SriRama statement to Swami RamanujAr in “Sharanagathy Gadyam“, conversation between Swami RamanujAr and BhagavAn SriRama about SriRama Promise to Swami RamanujAr that HE will give Moksham (NITHYA Kainkaryam) to Swami RamanujAr and HIS Sambhandhis (us).


मा तेऽभूदत्र संशयः (No doubht)
रामो द्विर्नाभिभाषते । (No second thoughts or change of my kind, I will deliver as I said ONE TIME)
What SriRama means is, I’m not like SriKrishna who is lying inside (Ranganatha), who says one thing and does another (Lier), but “I do want I say”


ஒரு சொல், ஒரு இல், ஒரு வில்

ஒரு சொல் (One word, SathyaSandhan)
ஒரு இல் (One wife Sita only, not even think about other women in mind)
ஒரு வில் (one Bow Kodhantam all the time, it never breaks).

So SriRama of Tretha Yugha who is NamPerumal in SriRangham says Ranganatha is SriKrishna.


Basically, Sriman NarayanA takes Vyuha Vasudevan form in Thiruppar Kadal and then HE takes the Vibhava Avataram forms like SriRama and SriKrishna. All Avatars are SAME, it is just for our BhagavAt Anubhavam to enjoy BhagavAn’s each Specific Kalyana Gunas (Leelai) in indifferent forms while we are in this Samsaram.


Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan

  • Liked by
0 on February 15, 2021

Srimate Ramanujaye namaha,

Another reference of how Lord Krishna exists eternally even before his dwapara yuga avatar.. BG 4.1.

śrī-bhagavān uvāca
imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
proktavān aham avyayam
vivasvān manave prāha
manur ikṣvākave ’bravīt

The Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikṣvāku.

Interestingly Arjuna raises the same question as in this thread and then Krishna clarifies.


  • Liked by
0 on February 15, 2021

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Namaskaram Enpanifan Swami,

In BG 4.1, to connect a missing piece from Swami’s upanyasam, Swami has told that SriKrishna tells to Arjuna that HE has instructed BhagavAt Gita to Soorya Deva “28 Chatur Yugas before” as well. In SriKrishna Avatar, HE says in HIS childhood that HE was SriRama before, and in SriRama avatar prior to SriKrishna Avatar, HE prays to HIS ThiruAradhanai Perumal Ranganatha (SriKrishna), so it is a cyclic Leelai from each Chatur Yugha to another Chatur Yugha by Vyuha Vasudevan.

In each Chatur Yugas these Vibhava Avatar SriKrishna and SriRama is repetitive of VYUHA VASUDEVAN. But here the question is how Ranganatha is SriKrishna. So the attempt is to answer with incidents within the same Chatur Yuga, though A generic answer as Avatar is repetitive would still suffice the need.

It’s all BhagavAt Anubhavam for us to cherish which ever Kalyana Gunas we prefer to enjoy, since BhagavAn’s each avatar exhibits some of HIS specific Kalyana Gunas which won’t be seen in other other Avatars, but there will be some overlap of Kalyana Gunas.

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.

  • Liked by
0 on February 15, 2021

Srimathe Ramanujaya namah,
Adiyen thank both of you swamin,..Dhanyosmi for making adiyen understand the reason behind Ranga’s name.
Alwar thiruvadigalae SaraNam
Periya PerumAL thiruvadigalae SaraNam.

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasyai

  • Liked by
1 on February 22, 2021

Srimathe Ramanujaya namah,
Adiyen would like to know where can we know much details regarding the Srirangam Muslim invasion because adiyen had heard that false idol of moolavar was sculpted to protect Periya perumal. Adiyen is requesting an answer for this swami.

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasyai

on February 22, 2021

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Namaskaram Anjali BhagavAta,


Koil Ozhugu is a series of books about Srirangam, the temple town,Srirangam temple, Its shrines , the influence of the various Kings and their Kingdoms on Srirangam temple administration etc.,Explanations about the Epigraphs connected with Srirangam etc.,The modern Koilozhugu written by Sri Vaishnava Sri Krishnamachari consists of 7 Parts , and contains 7250 pages. It is an Encyclopedia about Srirangam.


One can also listen Velukkudi SriKrishna Swami’s “Koil Ozhugu, where Swami informs the key incidents.


This book details how SriVaishnavaites and Acharyas saved the Temple from Barbaric acts of the invaders, with many sacrifices.


Some details from Online Translated short version Koil Ozhugu book and from other books as below. Summary only here, but read the  7 series of this book for more details.



It was after the year A.D. 1327 that news readied Srirangam that Rajasik Muslim invaders (Satvik Muslims remained in their country) under the
leadership of Malik Kafur had advanced as far as Tondaimandalam (the districts near
Madras). The local devotees cast lots to decide whether the icons should he kept at Srirangam
or removed to safer places in the interior. The decision, unfortunately, was in favour of
retaining the icons at Srirangam and even the annual festival was commenced and was being
conducted in full swing. By this time, the Muslim hordes had passed Samayapuram and the
Vaishnavites, realising their mistake too late, decided to adopt the best possible course under
the circumstances. Under the leadership of Sri Rangaraya, they despatched southwards the
icon of Alagiya Manavala, accompanied by Pillai Lokacharya and a few selected others and
camouflaged the important shrines in the temple by closing their entrances with brick walls.
Several icons were hidden inside the huge pillars of the temple. When the Muslim invaders
entered the temple soon after, they found all the important icons missing, and enraged at this,
they ordered a general massacre of all Vaishnavas. One account has it that no less than 12,003
Vaishnavites, including, Sudarsana Bhatta, the author of Sruta Prakasika, were put to death
by the heartless marauders.10 When they were about to destroy the temple building, a devout
devadasi, pretending to be intimate with their chieftain, diverted his iconoclastic zeal
elsewhere and thereby saved the main temple. Another Vaishnavite called Singappiran, also
managed to get into the commander’s confidence and successfully dissuaded him from
causing any major damage to the temple.
The party of devotees who proceeded southwards with the icon had a chequered career. They
were first set upon by highwaymen and were relieved of all their valuables. They however
managed to reach Jyotishkudi safely with the icons and here after a month’s stay, the
venerable Pillai Lokacharya passed away. The icon was then worshipped at Tirumalirunjolai
for a year and was later taken to Kozhikode, to which refuse many icons from important
shrines including that of Nammalvar, had been removed during that troublous period. After a
year’s stay at Kozhikode, the icons of Alagiya Manavala and Nammalvar were taken by the
sea route to the Mysore coast and from there the latter icon alone was conveyed to Tiru-
narayana-puram and finally to Tirupati. The icon must have been kept and worshipped on the
Tirumalai Hill for over 40 years for, Malik Kafur’s invasion of the South took place roughly
abort 1327 A.D. and it was not until 1371 A.D. that Srirangam was completely freed from the
Muslim occupation forces stationed there. By the latter year, Harihara and Bukka were firmly
established at Anegundi and one of their vassals by name Goppanarya was ruling from the
Gingee Fort. Goppana, who was a Brahmin, once went to Tirumalai to worship Lord
Venkatesa and there saw the icons from Srirangam. After fully acquainting himself with the
developments at Srirangam, he first removed the icons to Gingee, his headquarters, and then
planned an attack on the Muslim forces at Srirangam. Ably assisted by the local Vaishnavites
who provided the necessary espionage, Goppana recaptured Srirangam without much
fighting, and in the month of Vaikasi of the year Paritapi (1371 A. D.) had the various icons
re-installed in their original shrines. The Tirupati Devasthanam Epigraphical Report narrates
the incident as follows:


In an article by Dr. E. Hultzsch on the “Ranganatha inscription of Saka 1293” published in
Vol VI. of Epigraphia Indica, Goppana is reported to have taken the image of Alagiya-
Manavala- Perumal back from Tirumala (Tirupati), where it was removed from Srirangam,
when Trichinopoly was captured by the Muslims, and where it was safely preserved and
worshipped for a long, time until it was transferred to Senji (Gingee) in the South Arcot
District, and thence to Srirangam and there reconsecrated and re-installed in Saka 1293 by
Goppana. Goppana is stated to have gone on a pilgrimage to Tirumala while he held charge of
the Senji Province under Kampana II and there found “ an additional bronze image ”
worshipped along with the image of Sri Venkatesvara. He enquired of the priests as to the
cause of its existence and was informed that it was an image of Sri Ranganatha brought over
from Srirangam for safe preservation during the Muslim invasion of the place. Being a devout
adorer of Vishnu, he eagerly desired to restore the image to its original place: but seeing, that
Srirangam was still in the hands of its Muslim conquerors, he proposed to take the image first
to Senji, his capital town, and worship it there under his personal protection, until such time
as when he could safely restore it to its own shrine in Srirangam on the expulsion of the aliens
from the place. With the consent of the priests of the Tirumala temple, who looked after its
worship so long, he transferred the image to Senji and, placing it in the Ranganatha shrine on
the hill at Singavaram, a suburb of Senji, he had it duly adored until Saka 1293, when he
finally carried it to Srirangam and reconsecrated it (Vide the late Mr. T. A. Gopinatha Rao’s
Introduction to “ Madhura Vijayam” or “ Vira Kamparaya Caritam ” by Gangadevi, page 25).

It took 10 years for Kampana to defeat and drive the Mussalmans from Srirangam and the
country round about Madura, after his conquest of Sambuvaraya and the occupation of
Kanchi in Saka 1283. And therefore the resetting, up of the image in Srirangam by Goppana
was only possible in Saka 1293 and until that date it must have been preserved at Senji for
about two or three years after its removal from Tirumala. The Kilaka year corresponding to
Saka 1290 being very near in time to the date of reinstallation at Srirangam in Saka 1293, it is
almost certain that the Pregada’s (Goppana’s) presence at Tirumala was owing to this mission
of transference of the image from T.rumala and that the Pregada was none other than
Goppana, the Brahmana general of Kampana II and the Governor of Senji. It is a fanciful way
of stating that Goppana first learnt of the preservation and worship at Tirumala of the bronze
image of Alagiya Manavala-Perumal of Srirangam only on the occasion of his pilgrimage to
Tirumala, while as a matter of fact, he, as a ruler, would have known it long before and
predetermined its restoration in time. His pilgrimage itself would therefore have been
primarily planned and undertaken with this avowed object of its transference from Tirumala
to Senji. The tradition current in Tirupati respecting this Srirangam image agrees substantially
with that noticed m article No. 33 of Ep Ind Vol VI, but adds a little touching detail regarding
its preservation by a father and a son for nearly six months in a deep and narrow gorge near
Chandragiri from its threatened desecration by the Muslims during its transference from
Tirumala. The above record indicates the extent of sway that Kampana II held over the
Dakkan from Tirumala or Venkatadri southwards.”

Goppana had the happy incident inscribed on Dharma Varma’s wall in the form of two
Sanskrit verses which are seen even today in front of Sri Vishvaksena’s shrine. The Slokas
read as follows : —
svasti śrī bandhu priye śakābde (śakābde 1293)
ānīyānīnīla śṛṅgadyutiracita jagad rañjanādañbanādreḥ
ceñcyāmārādhya kañcit samayam atha nihatyodvanuṣkān tuluṣkān |
lakṣmī kṣmābhyām ubhābhyāṁ saha nija nagare sthāpayan raṅganāthaṁ

samyag varyāṁ saparyāṁ punarakṛta yaẖodarpaṇo goppaṇāryaḥ ||
viśveśaṁ raṅgarājaṁ vṛṣabhagiri taṭāt gopaṇṇakṣoṇī devo
nītvā vāṁ rājadhānīṁ nija bala nihatotsikta tauluṣka sainyaḥ |
kṛtvā ẖrīraṅgabhūmiṁ kṛta yuga sahitāṁ te ca lakṣmī mahībhyāṁ
saṁsthāpyāsyāṁ sarojodbhava iva kurute sādhucaryāsaparyām ||

After bringing Sri Ranganatha from Anjanadri (Tirumalai), which delights the
world with its peaks covered with dark clouds, and worshipping Him for some
time at Chenchi with Sri Devi and Bhu Devi, Goppanarya, who is like a mirror
of fame, vanquished the Muslims, who were expert archers and re-installing the
Lord at His own city of Srirangam, restored the traditional system of worship in
the temple.

Goppanarya, the Brahmin, brought Sri Rangaraja, the Lord of the Universe, from
the slope of the Vrishabhagiri (Tirumalai) to his capital and after destroying the
Muslim army with his forces, reinstalled Him with Sri and Bhumi at Srirangam
and thus introduced the Krita Yuga there again. In this deed, which is praised by
all righteous men, he acted like the very Brahma, (the Lotus-Born).

After this incident, several of the leading Vaishnava acaryas at Srirangam like Uttama Nambi
appear to have had close contacts with the kings of Vijayanagar such as Harihara Raya and
his son Viruppanna Udayar. These princes are stated to have weighed themselves in gold and
offered it to Sri Ranganatha and this gold was utilised for making vessels for the temple and
for inlaying, its roof. It is well-known that the kings of the Saluva dynasty were staunch
Vaishnavas and they appear to have helped considerably the Vaishnavas of Srirangam in
overcoming the opposition of the Saivites of Tiruvanaikkaval. Among the kings, vassals and
commanders of the Vijayanagar empire mentioned in the Koyil Olugu in this context are
Harihara Raya, Maha Raya, Goppanna Udayar, Virupanna Udayar, Muthaya Dennayaka,
Thammanna Udayar. Pradhani Somappa, Kadava Annar and Goppannar. One Timma Raut
representative of Saluva Gopala Raja, is mentioned as having spent lavishly for beautifying
the temple. Harihara Raya is stated to have consecrated to the deity a very costly cot made
entirely of ivory.

The Interest taken by the chiefs of Vijavanagar in the temple affairs of Srirangam however,
appears to have resulted in a scramble for royal favours among the local acharyas connected
with the temple and the work records that after 1418 A.D., an agreement was arrived at
between Uttama Nambi and Vedacharya Bhatta, the rivals. A sloka quoted in this context
reads as follows:

śrīmacchakābde navalokabhāji vikārīṇi hyuttama nambināmnaḥ |

vedārya bhaṭṭopari timmarājo vitīrya patraṁ samayam tad agrahīt ||

In Saka 1340- Vikarini, Vedarya Bhatta gave to Uttama-nambi, in the presence of
Timmaraja, a document and thus obtained time (a further lease of office)
The king ruling at Vijayanagar after the year 1421 A.D. is mentioned in the work as Pratapa
Deva Raya and this ruler is evidently Deva Raya II, otherwise known as Immadi, Pratapa or
Praudha. In 1441 A.D Viruppanna Udayar, probably a vassal of Deva Raya, built a shrine for
Sudarsana and also installed Yantra Narasimha at Srirangam.
We now get a few details from the life of the last of the great Acharyas, Manavala Mahamuni,
who is referred to in the Koyil Olugu as Periya Jeeyar. The year in which this Acarya entered
the sanyasa asrama and took up residence at the Pallavarayan Mutt in the Trivikraman
Tiruveethi at Srirangam is shown as (Parthiva) 1465 A D. The new Jeeyar did not easily
secure the allegiance of the leading Vaishnavites of the place and Uttama Nambi, son of
Periya Uttama Nambi referred to supra, was one among, the hostile party. Prativadi
Bhayankaram Annan, a leading disciple of Manavala Mahamuni, however, succeeded in
converting the Nambi as a disciple of his Acarya, whose influence was now steadily on the
increase. The book records that the Jeeyar was commanded by the Lord to do Kalakshepam in
the temple for a period of one year at the end of which he was blessed with the sloka
“śrīśaileśa dayā-pātram” From that date, this sloka continues to be the ‘Taniyan’ of the
Tengalai community of Sri Vaishnavites who are followers of Sri Manavala Mahamuni.


Several writers have traced the authorship of these two slokas to Sri Vedanta Desika who escaped from the
Srirangam massacre with the two sons of Sudarsana Bhatta, after preserving the manuscript of “Sruta Prakasika”
under the temple wall. But the generally quoted date of Desika’s death, which is 1369, comes in the way of this
theory being accepted. According to the chronogram “Bandhupriy ” the date of the inscription appears to be
1371 A.D. Gopinatha Rao quotes from the “Vedanta Desika Vaibhava-prakasika” of Doddayacharya to prove that Swami Desika was still alive when Goppana re-installed the icons at Srirangam.




Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.

Show more replies
  • Liked by