EnPani 1465 & 1466 – Where is swathanthriyam?

Updated on August 14, 2019 in Karma
6 on August 12, 2019

Respected swami,

It appears that we do something either because bhagavan makes us do ( bhagavan than seivikkirar ) or due to karma vaasanai.
If this is the case we are under the influence of either bhagavan or karma vasaanai. Then where is the real swathanthriyam? Is our karma vasaanai overpowering our swathanthriyam? Or in the other case if bhagavan makes us do, then adiyen heard from swami’s ‘Does bhagavan know everything’ enpani audio that he knows the past, present and future but does not influence anything. He allows us to act as per our wish. Then this seems confusing swami. How to understand “Bhagavan than seivikkirar” and how is swathanthriyam involved?

Prostrating to your lotus feet to clear adiyen’s confusion. Pl spare me for any mistakes whatsoever.


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Srimatae Ramanujaya Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam,

Asmadh Sarva Gurubhyo Namaha,


This is a beautiful question Ram2000 BhagavAta, and many have this doubht, so adiyen will explain/share answer to All BhagavAtas with Acharyan Krupai and Sri Velukkuid Krishnan Swami Arul from Swami’s “VaarthaMaalai” Upanyasam. Vaartha Maalai means “A Garland made of Holy Words”, which is a beautiful grantham complied with holy words/conversation of many of our past Poorvacharyas who lived different times.

Here is a Vaarthai that answers BhagavAtas question.

There are 6 things that BhagaVAn does during Creation of Andam/Lokams and then while HE gives body to a BhaddAthmA (JeevAthmA in this Suffering Samsaram, presently anyone of us)

  1. KarthrivtAm,

  2. KaarayAthritvAm,

  3. Anumanthritvam,

  4. UdhaseenathvAm,

  5. SakakaarithvAm,

  6. PhalaprAdhatvAm,

1) KarthrivtAm:

Supreme BhagavAN SriKrishna makes Sankalpam (Kartha)first after creating of basic elements and before giving a JeevAthma the first Body for Brahma post,

This Sankalpam Wish of BhagavAn is “Yellarum Unmaye Paesanum (one should speak truth), Nalladhu mattum seyyanum (one should do only good things), Dhaana Dharma Kaaryangal seyyanum (,Donate for Dharma activities) Kainkaryam pannanum (Service to Supreme BhagavAn to absolute humility) etc and so many good things BhagavAN makes the 1st WISH……

This Sankalpam is SOLEY/PURELY BHAGAVAN’s wish ONLY (Kartha), and there is no involvement of JeevAthmas or our Jeeva Swathantriyam or Karmas/Vaasanaas yet.

2) KaarayAthritvAm

This Sankalpam of BhagavAn is the turning point. Here BhagavAN makes that Sankalpam that HIS 1st Sankalpam “Karthritvam” be implemented/accomplished to a JeevAthma THROUGH THEIR OWN KARMAS”. Here BhagavAn makes one do (Kaaraya) HIS WISH through other JeevAthma’s KARMAS through THEIR OWN “Jeeva Swathantriyam (Independently Dependent on BhagavAn)”. SO, BhagavAN is not RESPONSBILE FOR OUR EVERY ACTION.

The reason why BhagavAn implements HIS WISH (Good things) through a JeevAtham’s Karmas is due to the fact that JeevAthma has “Jeeva Swathantriyam (Independently Dependent on BhagavAn)” . If BhagavAN does everything, thorugh HIS wish, then we need to be Achit (Insentieint/Jada Porul), but we are Chit (Sentient JeevAthmas) and Not Achit (Insentient/Jada Porul) with Jeeva Swathantriyam, so BhagavAN wants to see How we are going to make utilize of Jeeva Swathantriyam (Independently Dependent on BhagavAn). . In Good path same as HIS thoughts or in Bad path based on our own Annadhi Kaala Vipareetha Vaasanaas. If we we don’t have Jeeva Swathantriyam, then there is no neccessity of “KaarayAtritvam”. Since, we have Jeeva Swathantriyam, BhagavAN had to madatory do the “KaarayAtritvam”.

Now, one may have question that, if BhagavAn made “1st Karthritvam that ONLY all good things to happen, then where did the bad things come from?. As far as Karmas/Vaasanaas (Bad or Good) are considered, it is Anaadhi and with us (JeevAthmas) and not due to BhagavAn. Since BhagavAn says so through Alwars/Acharyas, then we have to believe it (MahaVishwasam).

If our Anaadhi Kaala Karmas/Vaasanas trigger bad things, then the owners is on us.

If our Karmas/Vaasanas trigger good things, then it is due to BhagavAn’s “Karthritvam” that Every Good things are due to MY SANKALPAM.

3) Anumanthritvam

After BhagavAn makes the above two wish, 1st wish Karthritvam (only HIS wish) and the 2nd wish (KaarayAtritvam) through our own Karmas, then BhagavAn waits for our “Aadhya Pravirthi”, means our first action.

If one does good things (Punyas) due to ones own Jeeva Swanthantriyam based on Shastras, then BhagavAN allows it (Anumadhipadhu) from inside as Antharyami, but BhagavAN doesn’t involve in our actions, instead HE let ourselves relinquish the Punya karmas.

4) UdhaseenathvAm,

If one does bad things (Paapas) due to ones own Jeeva Swanthantriyam (Vipareetha vaasanaas/karmas) against Shastras/Alwars/Acharyas Upadesams, then BhagavAn keeps SILENT (Udhaseenan) from inside as Antharyami, since HE dod not want to be part of our bad actions. SO, every bad actions we are responsible, since it is due to our own Vipareetha vaasanaas/karmas,

5) SakakaarithvAm,

The above 3) is just our good action and BhagavAn only allows it and BhagavAN HIMSELF doesn’t do any action. But in this 5), when we do a good action, BhagavAn as Antaryami also enhances and supports (Sakakaari) and makes us do more good. Here it is BhagavAN’s Seyal as well.

6) PhalaprAdhatvAm

This is the time to for BhagaVAn to give the Phalam to us based on our actions.

* If we do Paapa Karmas, then the Phalam that BhagavAN gives is “Punishment” either in Bhooloka in same birth or in Naragam or relinguish in some other birth.

* If we do Punya Karmas and did not surrender to HIS lotus feet, then the Phalam that BhagavAN gives is “HE lets us enjoy the Punya Karmas and birth-death-rebirth cycle follows and NO Moksham”,

* If we do Punya Karmas and surrender the results to HIS lotus feet, then Phalam that BhagavAN gives is “Moksham”.


Adiyaargal Vaazha ArangaNagar Vaazha, Kadal Soozhndha Mannu Ulagham Vaazha, Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamiye Innum Pala Kodi Oru Nootraandu Irumm.


Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

on August 13, 2019

Thank you very much for the beautiful explanations bhagavatha. Very nicely explained. Adiyen could grasp easily as it is the case with any answer of yours. Thanks for providing easy explanations from time to time.

Jai Shri Krishna!!


on August 13, 2019

Beautiful Kongil PirAtti Swamy

on August 13, 2019

@Ram2000 Swamy excellent question

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Sarvam Perumal-Thayar-Alwar-EmperumanaAr-JeeyAr-Acharyar-Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami ThiruvAdiyil Samarpanam. Adiyen only Regurgitated what Swami has said in VaarthaMaalai upanyasam.


Dear BhagavAtas,

Regarding BhagavAn’s “Udhaseenatvam” gunam, don’t worry. BhagavAn has given us Swami Ramanujar (Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami). Swami has a Kalyana Gunam called “தடுத்து ஆட் கொள்ளும் தன்மை“, so Swami will not allow anyone to do bad things even if ones annadhi kaala vipareetha vaasanas triggers it, due to Swami’s ThiruvAdi Anugraham.


Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

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Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,



Dear All BhagavAtas,


Here is a reference from Swami’s RN upanyasam, Acharyan’s Swami ThiruArangath Amudhanaar says about Swami Ramanujar’s Kalyana Gunam “தடுத்து ஆட் கொள்ளும் தன்மை / Thadutthu AatKollum Thanmai (Swami protects us from our vaasanaas/karmas)”, with which we don’t need to worry about Moksham or any other paths like “Upasana Maargham or Sharanagathy Maargham”, for anyone who says “Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha” whole heartedly.


Ramanuja NoorthAndhadhi (RN) Paasuram 26:

திக்குற்ற கீர்த்தி இரமானுஜனை* என் செய்வினையாம் மெய்க்குற்றம் நீக்கி * விளங்கிய மேகத்தை ** மெவு நல்லோர் எக்குற்றவாளர் எது பிறப்பு ஏதியலவாக நின்றோர் * அக்குற்றம் அப்பிறப்பு  * அவ்வியல்வே நம்மை ஆட்கொள்ளுமே.


Meaning from namperumal website:

(for more details, please listen to Swami’s RN upanyasam):


அவ்வியல்வே நம்மை ஆட்கொள்ளுமே”

(Thadutthu AatKollum Thanmai):

  • மற்றவர்கள் மூலம் அல்லாமல் என்னாலேயே செய்யப்பட்ட தீய வினைகள் என்னும் நிலை பெற்ற தோஷங்கள் அனைத்தையும், அவை போன இடம் தெரியாமல் எம்பெருமானார் (இராமானுஜர்) நீக்கினார்.

இவனது விரோதிகளாக உள்ள அனைத்தையும் நீக்கி விட்டோம்“ – என்று மகிழ்ந்தபடி உள்ளார் எம்பெருமானார்.


எட்டு திசைகளிலும் பரவியுள்ள குண பெருமைகள் உள்ள எம்பெருமானாரை:

*மேவினேன் அவன் பொன்னடி மெய்மையே – என்னும்படியும்;

*இராமானுஐஸ்ய சரணௌ சரணம்- என்னும்படியும்;

அவரது திருவடிகளை தங்கள் நன்மையாகும் இலக்காகும் பற்றியபடி பலர் உள்ளனர்.

இவர்கள் வேற எந்த பயனையும் பயணயும் யதிராஜரிடம் எதிர்பாராமல் உள்ள மஹாத்மாக்கள் ஆவர். இப்படிபட்ட மஹாத்மாக்கள் குற்றம் செய்யும் இழிவான பிறப்பை அடைந்த போதிலும், குற்றம் செய்யும் இழிவான தொழிலை மேற்கொண்ட போதிலும் அவர்களுக்கு இழிவு ஏற்படாது.

மேலும் இது போன்ற பிறப்பு, தொழில் ஆகியவை நம்மிடம் இல்லை என்றாலும், அந்த  மாஹாத்மாக்களின் “யதிராஜ பக்தி” என்பது நம்மை அவர்களிடம் அடிமைப்படுத்தி விடும்.



So when BhagavAn SriKrishna has given “UdayavAr” as Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr THIRUVADI for all, Swami says we shouldnot worry about Punya or Paapa Karmas, since Swami will deliver what is HITHAM (Protection & Moksham) for us.


Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Thiruvadigalaey Sharanam,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr THIRUVADI,

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

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