Earth is flat

Updated on June 30, 2019 in General
18 on June 24, 2019

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

As per momentary existence principle of VishistAdvaitham adiyen say the Earth is flat.

Only if I see from distance Earth looks round. Why should we accept a vision which is miles away? I trust my own vision.

I see as it is. What’s wrong in that?

Dasanudasan

 
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1 on June 25, 2019

If I blindly believe only what I perceive, then there is no way for me to know the truth about my date of birth and my name even! I believe my name is the actual name given to me, I believe that a specific date is my actual date of birth only because I heard so from people whom I trust – my parents.

Likewise, to know the truth, the best way is to learn from acharyas and sastra. Because these are trust worthy and always correct. That is the only way to know the truth. My sense perception is not. Suppose one turns blind suddenly, should that person start denying all the visual things around? No! Trust trust-worthy authorities – acharyas and scriptures.

Sastram refers to the earth as ‘bhoogolam’, meaning it is a sphere. Based on that we believe it is sphere and not flat; and our perception and experiments also supports that. In some other cases, sastram says one thing but we are not able to perceive that directly. Nevertheless we should accept sastram (and acharyas) as correct, because they are correct, but our sense perception is defective.

Hope it is clear.

on June 26, 2019

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe SriVarAha MahAdEsikAya Namaha

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam

So adiyen’s declaration is correct. The Earth is FLAT

Asmad Parama Gurubyo Nama:

Dasanudasan

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3 on June 25, 2019

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Absolutely Swamy our senses may be defective. The fact is PanchAngam is written considering the position of planets and sun revolving around Earth.

So Sun revolving around Earth?

Dasanudasan

on June 26, 2019

Let me try and explain to you with an example.

Let us say I am standing at the bus stop; you are going in a car at 40km/hr. There is bus going at 60km/hr. If some one asks me what is the speed of the bus I will say it is 60km/hr. If you are asked, you will say 20km/hr; this is because your car is moving at 40km/hr and therefore from your reference the bus will seem to move at 20km/hr. From your car reference it will appear as if I am moving in the backward direction at 30km/hr! Therefore, when you analyse motion or position, it is very important to know what is the reference point we are talking about.

Another example. if I ask you if your computer and the table you are using are moving or not, you will say “they are not moving; they are at rest”. This answer is true with reference to the earth. But if you are in space and seeing, the table and computer and you are all moving at great speed along with the whole earth itself! Because the earth is moving! So when we discuss motion or position of objects it is important to know what is the reference.

In our practical life, we consider the earth as reference and measure the position and motion of all objects with reference to the earth. With reference to the earth I am standing stationary in the bus stop; with reference to the earth you are moving at 40km/hr; with reference to the earth the bus is moving at 60km/hr.

So for all calculations in our daily life, by default we consider the earth as the reference and all positions and speeds are based on this reference. We don’t have to say each time “with reference to the earth”.

Similarly, because panchangam science is applied for purposes on earth, the ancient ‘scientists’ who put together the science considered the earth as the reference point and described the position of the planets with reference to the earth. In this reference the other planets and sun seem to go around the earth; for practical calculations this is perfectly correct. Even in modern science, scientists use similar methods to analyse problems. 

I hope this is clear

asmad Gurubhyo namah.

adiyen dasan.

on June 26, 2019
From your car reference it will appear as if I am moving in the backward direction at 30km/hr! From Kambandasan

correction: it should have been “From your car reference it will appear as if I am moving in the backward direction at 40km/hr!”

on June 26, 2019

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Absolutely Swamy our senses may be defective. The fact is PanchAngam is written considering the position of planets and sun revolving around Earth.

So Sun revolving around Earth?

Dasanudasan

From vikraminside

So adiyen’s declaration is correct. The Earth is FLAT

Asmad Parama Gurubyo Nama:

Dasanudasan

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2 on June 26, 2019

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

From the points devareer quoted ,

BHUGOLAM= Earth is round when reference point is different (Shastram)
FLAT EARTH= When reference point is Earth itself. (PanchAnga Shastram)

Both are shastrams

My atheist friend argued that curvature will be taken into account when long railway lines are laid.

Of course however long it may be, it’s flat to me.

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Dasanudasan

on June 26, 2019

 

I am sorry I am unable to explain to you in a manner you can understand. I hope you get to see the truth through some other source through acharya anugraham. Until then, please do not try to argue with any atheist. Because their atheism may get strengthened by your arguments with fallacy.

adiyen dasan. 

on June 29, 2019

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Swamy devar cannot substantiate your arguments property. In fact devar is aligning with adiyen’s perception which is also backed by Shastra.

Our Udayavar has insisted on “MOMENTARY EXISTENCE” which is nothing but “Truth at the particular point in time”

SNAKE US ALSO TRUE
ROPE IS ALSO TRUE

Adiyen think to have a fair understanding of the concept so far which is actually the truth.

To all of us Earth is looking flat an undeniable truth. This fact cannot be denied at least in this plane. For those without eyes may feel through their feet to be flat.

Adiyen leave it to Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy as Swamy can explain in the way adiyen can understand I guess.

Dhanyosmi for response so far.
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Dasanudasan

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Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnana Swmai Guruve Namaha,

 

Beautiful conversations BhagavAtas.

Adiyen would like to add some vision to the discussion based on Scriptures and other forums that Earth is Round (Sphere) and that is actually visible in present day by Science as well, where the continents have been clearly mentioned in Ithihaasas & Puranaas.

 

The first ever world map was sketched thousands of years ago by Indian saint Swami Ramanujacharya, who simply translated the following verse from Mahabharat and gave the world its real face in Swami’s Grantham “Yathira Mata Deepika”.

 

In Mahabharat, it is described how Maharishi Ved Vyasa gave away his divine vision to Sanjay, Dhritarashtra’s charioteer so that he could describe him the events of the upcoming war. But, even before questions of war could begin, Dhritarashtra asked him to describe how the world looks like from space.

 

This is how he described the face of the world:

 

यथा हि पुरुषः पश्येदादर्- शे मुखमात्मनः- ।

एवं सुदर्शनद्व- ीपो दृश्यते चन्द्रमण्ड- ले॥

द्विरंश- े पिप्पलस्तत- ्र द्विरंशे च शशो महान्।।-

(भी- ्म पर्व, महाभारत)

(In Bhima Parva , MahaBharatam)

 

Meaning:-

अर्थ- जैसे पुरुष दर्पण में अपना मुख देखता है, उसी प्रकार यह द्वीप (पृथ्वी) चन्द्रमण्ड- ल में दिखाई देता है। इसके दो अंशों में पिप्पल (पीपल के पत्ते) और दो अंशों में महान शश (खरगोश) दिखाई देता है।

Just like a man sees his face in the mirror, so does the Earth appears in the Universe. In the first phase, you see PEEPAL LEAVES and the next phase you see a RABBIT.

******

Based on this shloka, Swami Ramanujacharya sketched out the map, but the world laughed it off on seeing some leaves and a rabbit. Much later, when the picture was switched upside down by scientists and other philosophers, the reality struck in.

 

Don’t believe us, just try turning the above picture upside down and you’ll know what I am talking about.

 

So the Bharatha Varsha means the Whole Earth which includes all the countries as per Scriptures, not just India. So Sanatana Dharmam is for the Whole Earth which spread out, as Swami recently says in the Enpani #1421.

**************************

Also Srimad Bhagavatam:

Canto 3 Chapter 18 Shloka 2, & 

Canto 5 Chapter 21 Shlokas 8–9

Talks about Sri Varaha Perumal Avataram how Earth is Round and How BhagavAn held the Bhooma Devi Thayar (Earth) in HIS tusks

 

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,

உலக வரைபடத்தை முதலில் வரைந்த சுவாமி இராமாநுஜாசார்யார் கி ஜெய்

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

on June 29, 2019

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Yes Swamy this rabbit message adiyen also received in WhatsApp.

Correct Sri Bhu VarAharkku round , namakku Flat.
Udayavar space lerndhu paakarche round namakku Flat.
Dasanudasan

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Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Who is that “namakku ?”. For Acharyas and all Bhagavata’s, the earth is round looking from outside or sitting on the ground. Just stay away from that “namakku” people who is not sure what they are taking about. Otherwise, when they take next birth, the “namakku” people also will accompany them, instead of going to Moksham.

There are terms which is being confused by some.

Bhoomi is also called Bhoolokam, which is Spherical ROUND.

BhooMandalam is bigger size of 50 crore yojanas inside which Bhoomi is a small entity. This BhooMandalam which us the Center plane of Andakatakam (Universe) is FLAT (circular with a thickness like a sliced potato section).

People use word “Earth” 🌎 for both Bhoomi and BhooMandalam. That’s why some say Earth is Round and some say Earth is Flat, because of common term, both are different entities.

Swami has said Perumal gives Moksham to us only if HE is Happy with us. And Swami has said, BhagavAn is Happy only if we Follow Poorvacharyas Vachanam, since it is for our own benefit.

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
உலக வரைபடத்தை முதலில் வரைந்த சுவாமி இராமாநுஜாசார்யார் கி ஜெய்

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

on June 29, 2019

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe SriVarAha MahAdEsikAya Namaha

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam

When devareer see Bhumi it’s round or flat?

Why don’t we accept Prathyaksha pramANam?

Bhugolam is fine it’s round spherical etc.

Extracting from devareer’s quote “Dhritarashtra asked him to describe how the world looks like from space”

This question itself arised because Earth was flat looking to Dhritarashtra before.

My point is, wherever we move, we find the Earth is flat so declaring the Earth is flat. It’s because of Prathyaksha pramANam.

I cannot deny what I see. Can devareer deny what you actually see? Its absolute truth may refer something else but for the moment it was true or not?

As per Swamy Ramanujar’s VishistAdvaitham siddhAntham

You can see smoke and assume it as cloud
You can see cloud and assume it as smoke based on the distance

Whatever the perception you had was true because you did not consider smoke as Sun, you did not consider cloud as cinema theatre

Udayavar says “as there is resemblance we figure out things”

A rope can be 🐍
A 🐍 can be rope for the moment

A pillar can be man
A man can be pillar

A pillar cannot resemble snake
A snake cannot resemble pillar

Nobody is deviating from acharyAs views. It’s like framing someone as against acharyAs unnecessarily.

Adiyen talking from poorvAchArya’s explanation only that includes our own Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy

Dasanudasan

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0 on June 29, 2019

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Friend: Vikram ne gunda irukka
Vikram: See in microscope I won’t be fat

Our argument is like this. Why should I go to satellite and see Earth?

Dasanudasan

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Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Thiruvadigalaey Sharanam,

 

 

Dear Bhagavata,

 

 

BhagavAtas description of Earth Flat is based on our LIMITED vision (Dhrishtam) by looking at a PARTIAL Object (PARTIAL Earth), and not by looking at the Full object (Full Earth). So we cannot conclude by saying whole Earth is Flat. So What we should Say is “I’m looking only a PARTIAL Object, so I don’t know how the Whole Earth shape looks like. So I need to gather further information from spiritual texts to. Understand the “ADRISHTAM (that cannot be understood by naked eyes Dhrishtam)”.

Same thing about Bhagavata being FAT as said by BhagavAtas friend is by looking the Whole Object (Vikram). In microscope, BhagavAtas friend is looking at a PARTIAL portion of the OBJECT (Vikram) which is Flat, and it doesn’t represent  the FULL object Vikram Bhagavata, since Bhagavata itself is not a PARTIAL Object, but full objject as FAT. Unless BhagavAtas friend can fit Vikram Bhagavata in a bigger microscope, then BhagavAtas full view as FAT can be seen.

So the conclusion is full object Vikram Bhagavata us Fat and not flat, like full object Earth is Round and not flat.

*******************

 

More Detailed Explanation

 

There are three Standard ways or three categories to know things either by a materialistic or spiritual person as said by Swami Ramanujar based on Shastras which Sri Velukkudi Swami gas blessed us through Upanyasams.



A) One way is Pratyaksham (Seeing or Self Experiencing):

  • Seeing: Some believe only if they See with naked eyes. Like, what is a Fire?. When we see the actual fire, then we can memorize in our mind that this is called Fire and we it for second time, then we boldy say it is Fire, becasue we have seen it in first time.
  • Self Experiencing: If we have never seen a Fire as in above experience, and if another person says fire is hot, don’t touch it, then we don’t believe, since we don’t have experience of touching a Fire. But when we touch the fire by ourselves, then our hand gets burned due to the heat. Now this 1st experience has made us aware that fire is hot and we will not touch next time.

 

B) Second way is Anumaanam (Guessing): Guess based on our past experiences of Prathyaksham. Like if we see a smoke behind a hill, then we can Guess that the smoke is due to a Fire, since we have memorized seeing the Fire during the previous Prathyaksham experience. If we have never seen a Fire, then we cannot guess that the smoke is from the Fire.


C) Third way is Shabtham (Pramaanam/Written Original Text like Shastras Puranas or Ithihasaas): Just Believe what the text says, if it is written by another Devotees/Acharyas/Mahan and the content is Constructive for Lokha Shemam (Welfare of the World).

 

The 1st two methods A) & B) Prathyaksham & Anumaanam always should match The 3rd method C) Shabtham (Pranaamam the Spiritual Text), since the creator of the world is BhagavAn’s own Manual.

 

Summary:

 

1. Our Prathyaksham of “Seeing” is insufficient due to limited vision to see the Whole Earth as spherical. We are seeing only “PARTIAL OBJECT AND NOT THE WHOLE OBJECT”. With PARTIAL OBJECT vision, we cannot conclude the whole object Earth is Flat.

  1. So the next step is to apply Prathyaksham of “Self experiencing”. Like the “CircumNavigators” who started their expedition from a particular start point and reached the same point after long years, which is possible ONLY if Earth is round. If Earth is Flat and straight, one can never reach their own initial start point. So this is better step to experience that Earth is Spherical ROUND and not flat, since we havexachived WHOLE OBJECT experience.
  2. If one doesn’t have Pratyaksham by “self experience” that Earth is Spherical by expedition, then the Method B) Anumaanam (Guessing) as the Earth is Flat cannot be applied, since our Prathyaksham of “Seeing” was due to limited vision. We are seeing only “PARTIAL OBJECT AND NOT THE WHOLE OBJECT”, and we donot have Prathyaksham “self experience” expedition.
  3. Now the people who have Prathyaksham “self experience” that Earth is Spherical will also accept the Method C) Shabtham (spiritual text) to understand the Specifications of Earth like what is its size and what is included inside Earth, which Sanjaya has said in above Mhahabharata verse (rabbit and peepal leaves) and then later mapped out by Swami Ramanujar in detail of the continents etc, since Prathyakshyam should match the ultimate method of knowing an object. Since we did not create the world, we have to accept Owners manual “Vishnu Puranam, Srimadh BhagavAtam and Poorvacharyas granthams” that say Bhoomi (Earth) is Spherical.

***************

 

BhagavAtas description of Earth Flat is based on our LIMITED vision (Dhrishtam) by looking at a PARTIAL Object (PARTIAL Earth), and not by looking at the Full object (Full Earth). So we cannot conclude by saying whole Earth is Flat. So What we should Say is “I’m looking only a PARTIAL Object, so I don’t know how the Whole Earth shape looks like. So I need to gather further information from spiritual texts to. Understand the “ADRISHTAM (that cannot be understood by naked eyes Dhrishtam)”.

 

Same thing about Bhagavata being FAT as said by BhagavAtas friend is by looking the Whole Object (Vikram). In microscope, BhagavAtas friend is looking at a PARTIAL portion of the OBJECT (Vikram) which is Flat, and it doesn’t represent  the FULL object Vikram Bhagavata, since Bhagavata itself is not a PARTIAL Object, but full objject as FAT. Unless BhagavAtas friend can fit Vikram Bhagavata in a bigger microscope, then BhagavAtas full view as FAT can be seen.

So the conclusion is full object Vikram Bhagavata us Fat and not flat, like full object Earth is Round and not flat.

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

on June 30, 2019

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe SriVarAha MahAdEsikAya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Sri Kongil PirAtti Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam

Yes adiyen this is the answer adiyen was expecting

“So we cannot conclude by saying whole Earth is Flat. So What we should Say is “I’m looking only a PARTIAL Object, so I don’t know how the Whole Earth shape looks like. So I need to gather further information from spiritual texts to. Understand the “ADRISHTAM (that cannot be understood by naked eyes Dhrishtam)”.

Devareer nailed it

Yes the flatness of Earth still holds true as a part of the full object which cannot be denied as we are aware of it. It can form as a baseline for AnumAna pramANam for the Entire Earth to be flat. AnumAnam with limited Prathyaksham cannot be sufficient proof.

Similarly A jeevAthman being a part of para brahmam cannot declare self as entire ParamAthman

So “aham brahmAsmi” cannot mean the paramAthman in full and athman cannot equal paramAthman

To adiyen Earth is looking flat 😀
Actually Earth is round/spherical (Not flat)

Both are true

🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Dhanyosmi

on June 30, 2019

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe SriVarAha MahAdEsikAya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam

Adiyen having doubt in this

“Sanjaya has said in above Mhahabharata verse (rabbit and peepal leaves) and then later mapped out by Swami Ramanujar in detail of the continents etc, since Prathyakshyam should match the ultimate method of knowing an object. ”

Why Prathyaksham should match ultimate method of knowing object?

Have devaarer been to space to verify the same?

Dasanudasan

on June 30, 2019

Sanjayan’s Prathyaksham is our anumAnam!

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