Dating Of Azhwars’ Time Period

Updated 2 days ago in Azhwars
9 on November 13, 2020

Srimate Ramanujaya Namaha!
Namskaram to all Bhagavathas,

The question I am about to post is relevant to a discussion in the middle of the thread named “Mention of Modern Technologies in Vedas”

I understand that we can study Sri Ramanujacharya’s history in Koil Ozhugu. Is there any conversation or dialogue where they mention Azhwar’s time period to be about 4000 years before theirs?

 
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0 on November 13, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

 

Namaskaram “Shravanan Of Swami’s Upanyasams” Swami,

 

With Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami’s Aasirvadham, last year 2019 (Kali actual year 5121) Adiyen posted ‘A Sketch’ with the Yuga details from Yathindra Mata Deepika which shows first four Alwars time period in Kali Yuga Poorva Sandhi and 5th Swami NamAlwar at 45 days after start of Actual Kali Yuga, remaining Alwars after that. Please check if it helps to some extent.

 

 

(ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.

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Namaskaram Swami,
Srimate Ramanujaya Namaha!
இனிய தீபாவளி நல்வாழ்த்துக்கள் to all Bhagavathas!

Swami the timeline devareer sent is quite fascinating. I thought Sri Krishna went to Sri Vaikuntham 5000 years ago. But according to this timeline , it’s something like 108000 years ago.

But one question prevails. According to this timeline, Maharaja Parikshith ruled for 72000 years. But the lifespan of people in Dwapara Yugam is 1000 years. Also, Parikshith seems to have ruled even longer than Lord Ramar. Please kindly clarify this.

(P.S.: Swami, the way devareer answers each question patiently, by different questioners is very much commendable.
தங்களுடைய திருவடிகளை நான் மனதார பற்றி வணங்குகிறேன்)

அடியேன்

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1 on November 15, 2020

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

 

Namaskaram  “Shravanan Of Swami’s Upanyasams” Swami,

 

Devareer’s observation of Parikshit Maharaj ruling 72,000 years cannot be true as per the time that Adiyen posted above. 

 

However Velukkudi Swami has said in upanyasams that Supreme SriKrishna BhagavAn departed to Spiritual Abode at end of “Actual Kaliyuga”. So Adiyen drew the red line at end of actual Dwarpra Yuga end of 720,000 years. Now, since Parikshit Maharaj was born at the time of Kurushetra war end in Uttara’s Garbham, this would also mean when HE was crowned as Long may at age 18, some time later Kali Devatha would have entered. Then this would imply that Kali Entered in Dwapara Yugha Uttara Sandhi. This is not possible since Kali Yugha start like Poorva Sandhi of Kali Yugha marks the entry of Kali Devata and we know conversations between Kali & Parikshit. So this explicitly makes Parikshit Maharaj ruling for a period of 72,000 years, which Adiyen posted and didnot pay much attention until devareer pointed a valid thinking about lifespan in each Yugha.

 

So Adiyen did a deep diving little more and found a verse that says about SriKrishna BhagavAn’s drparturey time after the avatar in Srimadh BhagavAtam Canto 12 chapter 2 Sloka 33 as:

 

 

Which makes sense now that SriKrishna departed at end of Dwapara yuga Uttara Sandhi of 72,000 years since Kali Age started immediately after SriKrishna departure as per the sloka, and hence SriKrishna did not depart on end of “Actual Dwapara Yugha” of 720,000 years. So Kurushetra war should have happened in Dwapara Yugha Uttara Sandhi.

 

Same time Veda Vyasar organized 18 puranas (6 Satvik, 6 rajasik, 6 tamasik) for Kali yugha.

 

So Parikshit Maharaj ruled for few years on begining of Kali Yugha Poorva Sandhi period of 36,000 years.

 

Nandri Swami for making Adiyen dig more on this subject.

 

Other details should stay the same as first 3Alwars somewhere in beginning or middle of Kali Yuga Poorva Sandhi. 4th Alwar Thirumazhisai Alwar also in this period, there is story in Alwar Vaibhavam that Thirumazhisai Alwar was enlighten by Pei Alwar about Who is BrahmaM? with the upside down planting example.

 

Also, Adiyen just thought with Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Sri Krishnan Swami’s Aasirvadham that Madhurakavi Alwar though Shisyas of Swami NamAlwar, HE is older in age, so definitely Madhurakavi Alwar Avataram should also in Kaliyuga Poorva Sandhi period, which pushes Swami NamAlwar as the 6th Alwar Avataram.

 

There is one typo error in above chart, Swami NamAlwar avatram is 42days (not 45 days) after actual Kaliyuga period. We are in 5122 Kali year of the 360, 000 years (2020 as per Gregorian calender), past the Poorva Sandhi Kali Yuga period of 36,000 years.

 

So SriKrishna BhagavAn’s departure was 41,122 years (36000+5122) before from now, and not before 5000 years as devareer mentioned and not before 113,122 (72000+36000+5122) years based on adiyen’s above initial table.

 

Adiyen couldn’t find the Excel sheet where Adiyen made this table, so Adiyen couldn’t fix these updates, if not Adiyen can re-create and upload it again.

 

(ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.

on November 15, 2020

Typo error not “crowned as Long”, it’s crowded as King”.

Additionally, eventhough based on Avataram period, Madhurakavi Alwar is 5th, Swami NamAlwar is Acharya of Madhurakavi Alwar, so in Alwar lineage, our Poorvacharyas treat Swami NamAlwar as 5th, and next Madhurakavi Alwar like Swami RamanujAr is younger to Swami KoorathAzhvan, but in Acharya Lineage, Swami KoorathAzhvan is next in series after JagadhacharyAr Swami RamanujAr.

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0 on November 16, 2020

Srimate Raamanujaye Namaha,

Swamis, found some related info which swami has answered earlier in a blog. I was searching for the above info, and even in Google search landed on Swami’s  reply :)-

https://vdocuments.mx/qa-velkudi-krishnan.html ( ID 84 is the relevant question)

I quote below the relevant answer given by Sri Velukkudi swami.

“This is a valid doubt. Our purvacharya vyakhyanams mention that Nammazhvar was born 42 days after the birth of kaliyuga and so there was an ambiguity in my mind. After probing further it is clear that Nammazhvar was born much later ie after the uttara sandhi of dvapara was over Vyakhyanams do not mention that Nammazhvar was born 42 days from the departure of Krishna. They only mention that azhvar is relatively proximate to the date of Krishna rather than other avataras. (This confusion would arise if we assume that Krishna departed on last day of dvapara uttara sandhi. But in fact He departed on the last day of the actual dvapara yuga.)”

Swami, I  have a related question, what references in Bhagavatam or other literature are useful to understand actual data of departure of Krishna?

Adiyen

Thirukachidaasanudasan

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Namaskaram Swamis,
There are a lot of contradictions, particularly when it comes to dating the time period. Just now saw a lot of information on this.

Adiyen not sure how to reconcile all this…

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0 5 days ago

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

Namskaram Sharvanan Swami & Enpanifan Swami,

With Acharya ThiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Swami’s Aasirvadham, there is no contractions now after the last post. Enpanifan swami is referring to the same from Velukkudi Swami’s reference about Swami NamAlwar’s Avataram on 42 days after “Actual Kaliyuga Start” after the completion of the “Poorva Sandhi” of Kali Yuga 36,000 years.

Also in the above vdocuments link, there is an error regarding SriKrishna BhagavAn’s departure time in the devotees understanding while Velukkudi Swami was explaining, they would have misunderstood “end of Full Dwapara Yuga” as “end of Actual Dwapara Yuga” while writing it down or Possible that Velukudi Swami would have misspoken while dwelling through many devotees questions, since if SriKrishna BhagavAn departed on “end of Actual Dwapara Yuga”, then we know Parikshit Maharaj was already born as baby in same time. Then we have another 72000 years of Uttara Dwapara yuga to finish before Kali Devata’s entry on Poorva Sandhi of Kali Yuga start, where Srimadh BhagvAtam says there is conversation between Parikshit and Kali devata about Parikshit Maharaj not allowing Kali to enter His Kingdom. This would explicitly imply Parikshit Maharaj ruled for 72000 years of Uttara Sandhi of Dwapara Yuga which is not possible based on the life span. This was the only disconnect which raised a valid question in devareer’s mind, so adiyen with Achrya THiruvAdi Bhalam and Velukkudi Swami’s Aasirvadham found the Srimadh BhagavAtam verses  Canto 12 chapter 2 Sloka 33 as above (Tamil) and in English as below

yasmin kṛṣṇo divaṁ yātas
tasminn eva tadāhani
pratipannaṁ kali-yugam
iti prāhuḥ purāvidaḥ

Meaning:

On which SriKrishna departed (yatas) to SriVaikuntam (divam)
On that same time (eva) then the day (tadāhani)
the age of Kali Yuga age (kali-yugam) is obtained (pratipanna)
thus (iti) we know the events of former times (purāvidaḥ)

 

which states Kali Yuga started as soon as SriKrishna BhagavAn departed to Sri Vaikuntam, which means HE departed at the end of the Full Dwapara Yuga which is the Uttara Sandhi of Dwapara Yuga,  as per the Sloka, since Kali Yuga Poorva Sandhi Started immediately as per the verse which makes complete sense, and Swami NamAlwar Avatram after 36000 years of Kali Yuga Poorva Sandhi Competition and after 42 days of “Actual Kali Yuga Start”

Velukkudi Swami has only said that SriKrishna BHagavAn departure was not just 42 days prior to Swami NamAlwar’s Avatram, which is true since HE departed 36000 years before the Kali Yuga Poorva Sandhi start, way before Swami NamAlwars Avatram, and hence SriKrishna BHagavAn DIDNOT depart on end of “Actual Dwapara Yuga”, since this will lead to confusion of Parikshit ruling 72000 years and Kali Devata entry on Uttara sandhi of Dwapara yuga which is not True as per the sloka sicne Klai Yuga doesn’t include Uttara sandhi of Dwapara Yuga. So we have to go by the sloka SB 12.2.33 and infer that SriKrishna BhagavAn departed at the end of full dwapara yuga at which Kali Yuga started immediately.

In summary,

Today (2020) we are in 5122 years of Actual Kali Yuga Start past the Poorva Sandhi 36000 years of Kali Yuga started.

  • Swami NamAlwar avatram is 42days after actual Kaliyuga  start period (5122 years minus 42 days from now).
  • SriKrishna BhagavAn’s departure was 41,122 years (36000+5122) before from today (2020 Gregorian calendar, in actual 5122 kali year),
  • Other five Poighai, Pei, Bhoothath, ThirumAzhisai, Madhurakavi Alwars Avatarm was in Kali Yuga but in Poorva Sandhi of Kali Yuga and MAdhurakavi Alwar avataram was at the end of the Poorva Sandhi of Kali Yuga, since HE became a shishya of Swami NamAlwar after Swami NamaAlwar’s avatram after 42 days start of Actual Kali Yuga start.

So the only thing that adiyen need to change in the above  initial “Image Table” above is to shift the red vertical line of SriKrishna BhagavAn’s departure as per the sloka SB 12.2.33 from “end of Actual Dwapara Yuga” to the “end of the Uttara Sandhi of dwapara Yuga”. Other details same as Swami’s Upanyasams. The confusion arises because these information is not fully in the above vdocuments link,

 

 (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan.

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Namskaram ElayaAlwar Swami,

Thank you for your very elaborate explanation. Adiyen actually created this thread because when we search in Wikipedia about Alwars, we find the information that Alwars came in the time period of 7th to 9th Century CE. Now this date is based on research by modern historians.

It also mentions the Puranic dating, but gives a lot of importance to the date given by modern historians.

Also, in the internet wherever we search we find that Sri Krishna’s departure to Sri Vaikuntham was 5000 years ago. So they say that Kali yugam started 5000 years ago. They don’t talk of poorva sandhi or uttara sandhi.

Anyway, thanks for your reply, Swami.

அடியேன்

2 days ago

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

No worries Shravanan Swami. At least devareer’s question helped Adiyen to dig deeper on SriKrishna BhagavAn’s departure period after HIS vibhava Avataram. All is well Swami.

Adiyen (ElayaAlwar) Srinivasa (DhoddayAcharyar) Dasan

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