Chandra Grahanam and Tharpanam

Updated on August 14, 2018 in Daily rituals and practice
20 on July 27, 2018

Swamy Namaskaram!

Adiyean has this doubt for many years.

Amavasya means when Sooryan and Chardran comes together closely and we(those who are to do) are supposed to Pithru Tharpanam during that Thithi/time.

Same goes for Chadra / Soorya Grahanam. However, Chandran (Logham)is supposed to be located much away from our Bhoo Logham and not indicating the satellite moon (Nila) orbiting earth. 

However, we observe Lunar/Solar eclipses and the Amavasya based on the Earth’s satellite Moon. Scientifically it observes the same.

Does this not the Chandra Logham that is supposed to come closer to Earth/Sun?

The origin for practicing Bhodhayana Amavasya (Baghawan Sri Krishna’s version) began from the incident that both Chardran and Sooryan met each other in Bhaghawan’s presence due to His Leela.

Could you throw some light on this?

Adiyean!  

 
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0 on July 27, 2018

Is there email existig, that is. the one kinchitkaram@yahoo.co.in?

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Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,

 

Please listen to Swami’s Enpani audio “Chandra Grahanam – special message by Velukkudi Krishnan swamy” that was released yesterday 27-July-2018. This doesn’t have a Enpani audio number.

 

Yes, there is email “kinchitkaram@yahoo.co.in” existing as seen in ‘contact_us’ tab, where questions are being to Swami.

https://www.kinchit.org/contact-us/ 

 

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu.

on July 28, 2018

Thanks Bhaghavatha,
I have listened to it. However, adiyean doubt is not addressed here. Adiyean raised that is the satellite moon is ssme as Chandran?

Adiyean.

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@KongilPiratti Swami, My understanding is that we have to follow the rules of the eclipse if it’s only visible in the place where we are. For eg: yesterday’s lunar eclipse was not visible in United States West coast, so people here are not affected. Like wise when we had full lunar eclipse earlier this year and many times before, it was mid morning in India so people there didn’t observe it. Please confirm my understanding.

Adiyen,
Badrinarayana Ramanuja Dasan

on July 29, 2018

Namaskaram

Sri Ramnujayae namha,

Yes Bhagavatham explains that distance of moon is much far away form earth compared to sun.

But i don’t think it is some other moon other than our satellite moon.

The way we calculate the distance is in 3 dimensions only.. probably in other dimensions the distance form earth to moon is higher.

For example if we have two points located at A(10,10,2) and B(5,5,100) (x,y,z) co-ordinates..then the point B may appear to be close to origin (0,0,0) but in 3D B is farther than A

Regarding the above discussion “Like wise when we had full lunar eclipse earlier this year and many times before, it was mid morning in India so people there didn’t observe it”

Swami.. this time the recent lunar eclipse was not applicable to US region, as only the region of earth which casts shadow on moon and cannot see it is affected. However affected region can have it at any part of the day mid night , early morning etc.. and the time does not determine if it is applicable or not.

Adiyen

 

 

on August 2, 2018

Adiyean Swamy,

Yes, Bhagavathaas. Though it is immaterial to all Saranagathans,we have to discharge our destined duties (Nithya, Naimithyaka karma Anushtanagal) till we attain Acharya/Bhaghavan lotus feet.

Hence, adiyean’s perception is that we have to understand what we are doing so that we do it diligently with more care ; also we need to explain to our children / other generations the true values of our Sanathanada Dharma culture/practices so that they believe in these with facts and to follow further.

Adiyean is aware that Chandra Logham is beyond Soorya Logham. Adiyean’s doubt raised mainly due to two reasons- Amavasya tharpanam (where it is said that Chandran and sooryan meet)and the ritual/practice of eating food only after Chandra dharshan after Chandra Grahanam.

If this is the case, we are not actually having dharshan of Chandran but dharshan of satellite moon- is it one and the same??

Shamikkanaum for any mistakes.

Adiyean Ramanuja Dhasan.

 

 

 

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Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkusi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,

 

Dear BhagavAtas,

 

Adiyen understanding based on Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami’s THiruUllam as follows,

“A) For Ramanuja Sambhandhis, if the interest is to understand Perumal’s Thirumeni Proliferation/expansion by visualizing the known sizes of some lokas, to think how colossal/vast Perumal’s Thirumeni is, then below is the answer.

B) If not, just for the sake of knowing it, then we (Ramanuja Sambhadhis) should avoid such interests & focus should be on Kainkaryam and SriVaikuntam, and discard any interests in knowing about any lokas in this Leela Vibhoothi, as they are “”low level”” places full of Sorrow/Suffering.We have been in those lokas in the past and finally back to pavilion (Earth) for Athma Ujjivanam with Ramanuja Sambhandham through Sri Velukkudi Swami ThiruvAdi..

C), Those who are in learning curve in spirituality, based on their own vasanas/karmas.

 

Swami touch bases in a different topic enpani 1095 ‘vadakku Vazhgiratha Therkku Thazkgiratha”. Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami THiruvAdigaaley Sharanam.

 

For type A) & C) persons, below are the references & not applicable for Type B) persons

As per Shastras, the satellite moon that we see with naked eyes is NOT the Chandra Lokam.

 

References: “YathiraMathaDeepika” which is originaly taken from  Sri Vishnu Puranam  Chapter 2 Adhyayam 1 thru 12). This is reflected in crisp in Srimadh BhagavAtam as well.

 

One Andakatakam” a.ka. “Andam” comprises of 14 lokams

Andam looks like as an Oval shape Egg, with center plane as “Bhoolokam”, inside which The Bhoomi (Earth) is a miniscule entity. So, Bhoolokam is NOT Bhoomi. Rather Bhoomi is inside Bhoolokam.

Swami has said in one of the past Enpani that, if we consider Bhoolokam as XY plane, then all the other 13 lokas are in Z axis, Vertical to the XY plane. 6 lokas above & 7 lokas below (adiyen mentioned incorrectly in past thread as 7 above & 6 below)

 

1) Bhoolokam (Center of Andam)

The Width size (linear XY plane distance end to end) of Bhoolokam is 50 crore Yojanai = 500 crore miles. (Bhoomi/Earth is only 7926 miles in diameter approx as per science). So, Bhoomi is well inside the Vast Bhoolokam.

Total height of Bhoolokam is 1 lakh Yojanas = 10 lakh miles, same as height of Meru mountain

1 yojanai – 8 miles or 10 miles. Not sure exatcly, but Swmai says 10 miles. So lets stick to 10 miles = 1yojanai..

There are 7 Dweepams in this Bhoolokam Concentric to each other like a “mathemateical Torus” (all in the same XY plane with Meru mountain as Center axis, each Dewwpams seprated with 6 oceans

 

The Dweepam around the Meru mountain is Jambhu Dwepam, which itself is 1 lakh Yojanai = 10 lakh miles.

The height of Meru Mountain itself is 1 lak yojanai, same as diamter of Jambhu Dweepam.

The other concetric dweepams concentric to jambhu dweepam are a bigger is Torus radius and NON- reachnable by ordianry humas like us.

So, we calling USA as Crouncha dweepam and India is Bharata Kandam is a foolishness.

The Entire Bhoomi itself is inside Jambhmu Dweepam and is minuscule in size, so the satellite moon is nothing

 

Based on adiyen understanding with Swami’s anugraham, now the size of the center lokam of Andam, Bhoolakam is almost clear.

 

 

2) Bhuvar Lokam (1st lokam above Bhoolokam)

Next above Bhoolokam is “Bhuvar Lokam” where Gandharvas live.

The total width linear distance is ofcourse smaller than the bhoolokam, since this lokam plane is at a upper height from the bholokam and the whole Andam is oval shape. Same way, each lokam width keep decreasing due to the oval shape Andam.

In each plane, the Lokam has its own Height.The total height of this Bhuvar lokam is 1 lakh Yojanai = 10 lakh Miles

 

3) Suvar Lokam (2nd lokam above Bhoolokam)

Next above is “Suvar Lokam” where Suryan, Chandran, Nakshatiram, all Grahas in heiraichical order lives starting with Suryan.

Suryan, then Chandran above, then Nakshthiram above, then Bhuthan above (Not the Mars in solar system, since Mars is inside Jambhu Dweepam which is inside Bhoolokam), then Sukhiran above, then Angharan above, then, Bruhaspathis above, then Shani (not the Saturn, since it is inside Jambhu Dweepam/Bhooloam). This Heirarchy is being said as “Simsimara Chakkaram”

The total height of this lokam is 14 lak Yojanai = 140 lakh Miles

This Chandran Deva residence is inside the ‘Suvar Lokam’, where as the satellite moon that we see is different, which is in the XY plane of Jambhu Dweepam/ Bhoolokam. The size of Suvar lokam are not even comparable with moon that we see,

Same situation with all Grahas. The planets in our solar system (Bhoolokam) are not the ones that is described in shastras. All the Grahas reside in Suvar lokam vertical Z axis of Andam.

 

So on, other lokams, one above the other as below order

4) Mahar lokam (Indra loam) total height of  1 crore yojanai = 10 crore miles)

5) Jano lokam (Brahmas son’s lokam) total height of 2 crore yojanai = 20 crore miles)

6) Thapo lokam (All Prajathipatis with Vairagyam live here) total height of this lokam is 8 crore yojanai = 80 crore miles

7) Sathya lokam (Avatar of Sriman NarayanAn ‘SriVishnu’ and HIS son Brahma and his son Shiva live here). Total height of this lokam is 12 crore Yojanai = 120 crore miles)

 

**********************************

Now, in negative Z- axis, 7 lokas are BELOW the XY Bhoololam (center plane of Andam)

 

1) Athalam

2) Vithalam

3) Nithalam

4) Rasathalam

5) Mahathalam

6) Suthalam

7) Paathalam

Each of these lokams are 10,000 Yojanai (1 lakh miles) in Width & Height. So, muliply by 7 is the total height of all these 7 lokas = 7 lakh miles height.

 

Then there is different ‘Naraka lokams’ below these 7 lokas which is 36,000 yojanas (3.6lakh miles) in height

Then another 30,000 yojanas of something belwo these.

**********************************

 

Overall, one “ANDAM or AndaKatakam’ comprises of 14 lokas

Width of one Andam is 50 crore yojanai = 500 crore miles (which is the Bhooloakm

Not sure of total height of Andam. May be we can sum up all lokas height

as 23 crore 17lakh yojanas = 230 crore and 17 lakh miles.

 

Please refer to the above actual references and read it for one’s own understanding, as adiyens understanding could be different.

 

As mentioned initially, for type A) & C) persons, the above are the references and NOT applicable for Type B) persons.

 

********************

 

Either way, the point is, when we ourselves cannot see the end of an ordinary road itself, where and how can we see or understand this One Andam. Like this there are Millions of Andams.

 

All these millions of Andams together is called as “Leela Vibhoothi (Materialistic World)”

Each Andam has One Brhama [post and One Shiva Post. Brahma in one andam cana be powerful than Brahma of another Andam, same way this Shiva. All these posts are occupied by JeevAThmas like us.

 

The Controller of this LeelVibhoothi is “Sriman NarayanAn”

 

This Leela Vibhoothi is only 1/3rd of the full size. The remaining 3/4th is called a “THRIPATH VIBHOOTHI” or Moksham, SriVaikuntam or ParamaPadham or NIthya BIbhoothi (Spiritual World), which is beyond the Virajai River, which should be our (Sharanagathas) focus.

 

Both Leela Vibhoothi & Nithya VIbhoothi are Body “THirumeni of PERUMAL. That BIG is PERUMAL.

 

********************************************

Moon’ irundha yenna, illaeynna namakku yenna. Indiaviil Grahanam vandhal yenna, USAvil varalaenna namakku yenna. Namakku yellarukkum Ramanuja Sambhandham irukkiradha, adhu podhum. Sri Velukkudi Swami Thiruvadigalaey Sharam Yendrum sollum Ovvoruttharukkum, Ramanuja Sambhandham aagi vittadhu, appuram vaera yenna vaendum namakku.

 

Perumal Sings a Striking Minnale Song,

வேறன்ன வேறன்ன வேண்டும், ஒரு முறை சொன்னால் போதும், நிலவையும் (moon) உந்தன் (our) கால் மிதியாக (foot mat) வைப்பேனே. சொல்லவும் கூட வேண்டாம், கண் இமைத்தாலே போதும், கேள்விகள் இன்றி உயிரையும் தருவேனே….

“Oru murai” Sharanam yendru sonnaal podhum. SriRama Charama slokam, Sakrudeva Prapannaya tahvaismidhe yachathey………(one time you say Sahranam, I will clear your Karmas. Rama Dhvir Nambhi BHashathe (Raman Oru Thadava Sonna, 100 thadavai sonnadhukku maelay, Maru PEtchu KIdayadhu)

 

Swami Thiruvadiyil Kainkaryme Parama Purusharttham.

 

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr THiruvAdi

Sarvam SriKRishnarpanam Asthu

on August 1, 2018

Nandri

Thanks for the detailed transcription from Swami’s upanyaasams.

So if sateelitel moon and chandran or not same what is satellite moon referred as in vedas?

And also as komalsrini bhagavat asks, how is it that all predictions for various thiti, grahanam etc are based on chandran in sastram /panchangam matches with movement of satellite moon?

Only possibility I can think of is both chandran and moon revolve at same speed so the relative position /angle for both chandran and moon are same?

In a side note, though it is true that for a surrendered person these are not important, it is important for us to understand clearly so that we can explain scientifically to upcoming generations.

Example: Because Velukkudi swamy has put effort to understand clearly , he is able to explain convincingly comparing with scientific understand of grahanam etc..(in his recent chandra grahanam message).

This is my personal opinion or thought.

Adiyen

 

 

 

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Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,

 

Dear BhagavAtas,

Adiyens correction after digging more into Yathinra Matha Deepika. The Suryan is in Bhuvar Lokam (1st lokam above Bhulokam) since, Suryan is a Gandharva and the rest as mentioned in Suvar lokam (2nd lokam above Bhulokam) and the hierarchy is correct as mentioned above.

As said, Vertical Z axis of the Andam has Surayan deva’s orbit in Bhuvar lokam crossing into Bhulokam where Bhoomi (Earth) is there. Then above Suryan’s orbit is Moon’s orbit (Suvar lokam). So the Chandra lokam is a PLACE inside Suvar lokam and the CHandran Deva itself orbits above Suryans orbit overlapping suryan and Bhoomi (Earth). SO, we see teh Grahanam and all are true as we see and experience.

 

Adiyen’s Dharma Sandeha login doesn’t have permission to attach images. If Kinchit Volunteers can provide permission in adiyens login to attach images, then adiyen can snapshot the orbit image based on SriPerumbuthur Achryan’s drawing from Yathinra Matha Deepika, and post it.

 

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAR ThiruvAdi,

Sarvam SriKRishanrpanam Asthu

 

on August 2, 2018

Nandri.

WIsh to see the image to get a better understanding.

Adiyen wish to get clarified if Chandra lokam Chandran defined in this big picture is same as the moon we see?Or is moon only a part representation/mirror image of the actual chandran?

If it so far how are we able to see it?

Also if Chandra logham is above surya logham, did men cross surya lokham to reach moon/chandran (if they really did reach?)

present scientific community believes that they know the distance of moon from earth as they claim they have landed there as well.. so we need to have a scientific explanation to convince upcoming generations that Bhagavatham is correct and this chandra lokham is farther as explained. But not sure how to do unless we dont know if Chandra lokam  and moon are same or different?

Adiyen

 

 

 

 

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0 on August 2, 2018

Adiyean Swamy,

Yes, Bhagavathaas. Though it is immaterial to all Saranagathans,we have to discharge our destined duties (Nithya, Naimithyaka karma Anushtanagal) till we attain Acharya/Bhaghavan lotus feet.

Hence, adiyean’s perception is that we have to understand what we are doing so that we do it diligently with more care ; also we need to explain to our children / other generations the true values of our Sanathanada Dharma culture/practices so that they believe in these with facts and to follow further.

Adiyean is aware that Chandra Logham is beyond Soorya Logham. Adiyean’s doubt raised mainly due to two reasons- Amavasya tharpanam (where it is said that Chandran and sooryan meet)and the ritual/practice of eating food only after Chandra dharshan after Chandra Grahanam.

If this is the case, we are not actually having dharshan of Chandran but dharshan of satellite moon- is it one and the same??

Shamikkanaum for any mistakes.

Adiyean Ramanuja Dhasan.

 

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0 on August 2, 2018

Dear Kongilpiratti Bhagavatha,

We can upload images; i did it before- inserting Khala Kanakku image from my drive. You just have to click twice on the click image icon/text.

Adiyean

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Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,

 

Dear BhagavAtas,

 

Yes, adiyen’s revised understanding based on Yathinra Matha Deepika is “the moon that we see is the Chandran deva, but Chandra Lokam is different as said before. It’s a place and inside Suvar Lokam (2nd lokam above Bhoolokam) with heights as mentioned above based on Yathinra Matha Deepika.

 

The best way to explain is as below. Adiyen will use Sri Velukkudi Swami as an example.

 

Consider Sri Velukkudi Swami as Chandran Deva.

Swami reside in HIS ThiruMalaigai (Home) which is Chandra Lokam.

Swami’s Home (Chandra Lokam) is inside the bigger city Thiruvellikeni (which is Suvar Lokam).

But, Swami (Chandra Deva) travels all around India and outside India (basically Orbiting) “inside and away” from his residence Home (Chandra lokam) as well as “inside and away” from HIS city Thiruvellikenei (Suvar Lokam)

 

Same way with Suryan that we see, Surya deva residence is Bhuvar lokam, but He orbits in His chariot.

 

During which, Chandran Deva orbit & Suryan Deva orbit overlap in Bhoomi’s path in Bhoolokam, which causes the Grahanam (Solar or Lunar eclipses) accordingly, but their own Lokams (residence) are independent and far away from Bhoolokam. Aidyen believe, the explanation should make it clear. Let’s keep Sri Velukkudi Swami’s ThiruvAdi on our Head and try to visualize in our mind.

 

Thanks Komal BhagavAta for tips on how to upload images. Adiyen will try to upload from SriPErumbuthur Srimadh Paramahamsethyathi Thiruvenkata Ramanuja Embar Jeeyar Swami’s drawing based on Yathinra Matha Deepika.

 

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,

Jeeyar Swami ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu

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Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruve Namaha,

 

Dear BhagavAtas,

 

Here we go for the snap shot from Jeeyar Swami’s drawings based on Yathira Matha Deepika.

Simsimara Chakkaram shows the hierarchy of each lokams with those Devas in that respective lokams one above the other.

The bottom section also shows the paths. The center (trapezoid image) is the Meru Mountain in Jambhu Dweepam which is 1 lakh yoyanai (10 lakh miles) in height around which there are 9 conitents, of which Bharata Kande (9000 yojanas wide/ 90,000 miles wide) is one of the continent inside which the WHOLE Bhoomi (Earth) 7600miles wide is present. So, all countries inside this Bhoomi is BHarata Kande, since Bhoomi itself is inside the Bharata Kande

Also are the Chandran & Suryan Paths drawing by Jeeyar Swami.

 

************

************

 

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,

Jeeyar Swami ThiruvAdigalaey Sharanam

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,

Sarvam SriKrishnarpanam Asthu

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Sri Ramanuja Munaye Namaha,
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Guruvae Namaha,

Also regarding BhagavAtas concern
” Also if Chandra logham is above surya logham, did men cross surya lokham to reach moon/chandran (if they really did reach?)”.

As of now, we understood that each lokams are far away , and chandra deva and surya deva only travel (orbit) based on Perumals order.

The story of moon landing is completely a faux story.
Perumal manasu vaiikkamal, yaarum yendha logatthukkum poga mudiyadhu. The whole moon landing was setup in studio and was released, is what public people say. There are lot of videos regarding this in youtube. BhagavAta can search and see it by self.

Swami beautifully says in enpani #1097 “padaipukku padaippaliyai theriyuma”.

Scientists can only utilize the “Existing resources” that Perumal has created and then make something out if it. Scientists cannot create a “resourse” itself. So “Owners manual” is the Shastras, which has the actual stories of creation, which we BhagavAtas should focus rather than relying on scidntists “TRIAL and ERROR” method. If anything is successful, then it is already/definitetly available in Shastras, which is being informed to us by Sathvik Gurus like Sri Velukkudi Swami and others.

Example:
A car manufacturer like Honda releases a Owners manual for doing maintanence, how to operate the vehicle, genuine servuce parts list, and also sets up “Honda approved” dealerships called as “Genuine dealers”, where Honda trains those service dealers about their vehice and trains them on each parts functioning.

At the same time, there are many “third party” car service centers, who doesn’t have a proper training from Honda. But still they fix the vehicle by their “trial and error” experience with some basic knowledge, which can be successful sometimes and failure most times.

But “Genuine dealership (Honda approved dealers)” will fix the issue with ease, and will also give us reccomendations on how to handle the vehicle, where as third party dealerships willnot give any reccomendations fir ghat vehivle make, as they dont care and moreover they don’t know.

***********
Apply these terms here:

Honda = Sriman Narayanan (Perumal),
Owners manual = Perumal’s Shastras,
Genuine dealership = Perumal approved Acharyas/ Sathvik Gurus,
Third party dealers = Scientists ( including allopathy doctors). All trial and error inventions and cure. Some will be successful and some will fail, and some lead to next level serious issues, since they dont know how the product (body) works, as they have not read the products (body’s) manufacturers (Perumal’s) manual (shastras).
****************

So lets, focus only on “Genuine dealers” the Acharyas and Sathvik Gurus” for handling a product (Body and Athma), which the Owner Perumal has created, instead of fully relying on “third party dealers” who dont know the product specifications, and they dont know how it works.

Adiyen Sri Velukkudi Krishna Dasan,
Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayavAr ThiruvAdi,
Sarvam SriKrisharpanam Asthu.

on August 3, 2018

Ramnujayae namaha

Nandri for uploading the informative drawing.

I am unable to understand few points:

  1. What is the projection of each lokam coming as two conical lines into the bhoo mandlam in th efirst picture? So when we are referring to moon are we referring to this projected moon on Bhoo mandala plane and not the actual chandran, (if this interpretation is correct then we can explain the fact (as discussed before that sun and moon distances in 3 D plane  and 4 D plane are different)
  2.  In the second diagram  there are two suriya pathai and two chandra pathai  circles so i am not able to understand how there are two circles? 
  3. In the second diagram at some places the grey circle becomes bigger, what is this grey dot and why does it become bigger?

There must be deeper meanings but i am unable to understand, if anybody understands please explain.

But to my understanding the first picture is a schematic of 4 dimension. The bhooloka plane itself is 3 dimensions, which is what science is able to perceive.(so only projections of sun and moon and therefore have wrong idea that sun is farther and moon is closer)

The height above bhooloka plane is probably 4 th dimension.

Adiyen

 

 

 

 

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