Athman – No shape but size?

Updated on October 30, 2016 in Good qualities for human
5 on October 26, 2016

As there is no pancha bhootha Shareeram to Athman then why athman referred as “Anu mathra Swaroopan”?

What is there in size when there is no shape?

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4 on October 26, 2016

Srimathey Ramanujaya Namaha

As far as the size is concerned, it would be something like this.

” we take a rice grain, cut the tip of it. break that tip in to 100 pieces. take one piece out of that 100 and break that again in to 100 pieces. Now pick one piece out of these 100 pieces ” An atman will be much smaller than this piece.

It is impossible to see an atman with pancha bhootha eyes. Paramatman stays inside this Atman as well. so there should definitely be some size / shape as well although we are not able to comprehend it.

Not sure if the answer is convincing/ right. But this is all that Adiyen knows.


Ramanuja Dasan

on October 27, 2016

Yes adiyen the answer is not convincing. In this age of electronic microscope the naked eye explanation will not suffice.

Adiyen think the answer should lie between the “roopam” and “swaroopam”

Venkatesh Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam


on October 29, 2016

Srimatae Ramanujaya Namaha,

With Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami’s Anugraham, adiyen has heard that, there are two bodies (Shareeram) for an Athman (Baddha Athman) as long as the Athman is residing in the Leela Viboothi which is made of pancha bootham (Prakrithi).

One is called “Sookshma Shareeram” (tiny Permanent body) which never gets destroyed from birth to birth and is invisible to naked eyes. It is almost same size as the Athman. This body is adhered to the Athman all the time for an infinite period (Anaadhi), same as how the Athman is Anaadhi. This body has a shape and is as tiny as division of a grain.

Another is the “Sthoola Shareeram” (Temperory body) which is overlaid on to the Sookshma shareeram. An Athman gets multiple temporary bodies from birth to birth based on karma, like what we have now. This temporary body is of 84lakhs different types as per Padma Puranam. They are Aquatic bodies ; Plant bodies; Bacterial bodies underground & above ground; Animal bodies; Bird bodies; Manushya shareeram (This includes body types as Deva body like Brahma, Shiva, Indra and other demi-gods, Asura body & Human body on earth).

Closest materialistic example is, an artificial intelligent Chip (Athman) inside a skeleton robot (Sookshma shareeram) which is covered by different clothing’s/masks (Sthoola shareeram) to make it appear visually. The chip & skeleton robot is always the same and hidden, but clothes or masks are visible and can be changed multiple times. Tiny Sookshma shareeram has a head, hand, leg etc.. So when we get a temporary Sthoola body based on karma, the head of the Sookshma shareeram gets connected to the head of the particular Sthoola shareeram (like fish head or plant stem head or dog head or human head etc..) and so on the other related parts also gets connected one-to-one via “PraAnan” which bonds the Sthoola shareeram & Sookshma shareeram.

Here is how Sookshma and Sthoola shareeram works.

Athman itself is pure with its Dharmik Gyanam. When we do actions/karmas using Sthoola shareeram, the results are stored in the Sanjitha karma (huge indefinite account) and the vaasanai/ruchi (Sattvik, Rajasik & Tamasik gunas) gets deposited (padimangal) in the tiny Sookshma shareeram which we call as Anaadhi kaala vaasanai/ruchi/padimangal based on the karmas ,which may be both Avidya and Gyana. When we take birth (get Sthoola shareeram) based on past karma, BhagavAn gives a portion of the Sanjitha karma as Prarabtha karma for few Janmas.

Every birth, we accumulate Punya & Paapa based on the actions we do on that birth. The results of the karmas gets accumulated as Sanjitha Karma which is stored in Bhagavan’s ThiruUllam (heart or mind), and the Vaasanai (behaviour) based on the results of the karma gets deposited back to our tiny Sookshma shareeram. That’s why, even after Maha Pralayam, the annadhi kaala vaasani/ruchi is still with the Sookshma shareeram (inside which the Athman is residing). This never gets destroyed even-though the creation is not existing after Maha Pralayam. So, when Bhagavan again starts Shrishti (Creation), HE chooses the type of body (Sthoola shareeram) for each Athman depending up on the Punya & Paapa karma. If we have exemplary Punya, then Bhagavan puts us in the high level Manushya Sthoola shareeram like Vyasa Bhagavan body or Brahma body or Shiva body etc.. Our behavior is then decided by the Anaadhi kaala vaasanai/ruchi deposited in the Sookshma shareeram and we also do further actions (Aagami karma) using the Sthoola shareeram.

So, we have every right to properly utilize the Aagami karma and get rid of the Rajasik/Tamasik gunas. This can be achieved by listening to Upanyasam, Koil kainkaryam, Acharyar Kainkaryan, Bhagavata Kainkaryam, Satsangam (talking only about vicharam illadha Bhagavat Vishayam) etc..

However, Bhagavan can grant Moksham directly without even giving a Sthoola shareeram with HIS “NirHedhukai Krupai (Causeless Mercy)”, which HE is already granting for millions of JeevAthmas as we speak at this moment. Like in SriRama Avathara, HE took all the Manushyas, grass, sand, stone etc.. from Ayodhya to SriVaikunta along with HIM without even giving a Manushya shareeram and not letting the JeevaAthma go through Bhakti Yoga Margam or Saranagathi Margam. But, HE is not a great fan of this method very much (Upanishad says “Anavaratha”), since HE doesn’t like it and it is boring for HIM to do such activity for millions of JeevAthmas. Bhagavan’s perspective is, there are Anantha Kodi JeevAthmas existing, and How many HE can do & How long HE can do. Even-if million JeevAthmas are given Moksham this way, still millions of JeevAthmas remain in the Leela Viboothi. As Swami has said in EnPani “Infinite minus Infinite equals Infinite”. So, Bhagavan in-addition for a change, plays this Leelai by doing Creation and provides Sthoola shareeram with Indriyangal (eyes, ears etc..) and then give Shastras, Vedas, Alwars, Acharyas to uplift each fallen JeevAthmas from this Samsaram (Leela Viboothi).

However, if we have taken a Manushya Shareeram, the purpose of the birth is to get rid of all the Karmas (Sanjitham & Prarabhtam and Aagami karmas) as well as get rid of the Sookshma shareeram which has all the Rajasik & Tamasik deposits. We cannot achieve this task by ourselves as we are incapable. That’s when, Swami Ramanujar by HIMSELF voluntarily takes care of us (“Munnai PAzhaVinai Veru Aruthu” Ramanuja Noorthandhadhi) by “PARAGATHA SWIKARYAM” Prapatti/Sharanagathi/Samasrayanam and we get Swami Ramanujar THIRUVADI Sambantham. Swami Ramanujar is the one and ONLY KARUNAI SAAGARAM. There are no words to say about Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami’s Upanyasams & Aasirvadham. We may not even known about Swami Ramanuajar’s Mahimai.

After Prapatti, with Acharyar Krupai, we have to continue the Vicharam illadha, ApaCharam illadha Kainkaryam to Bhagavan, Thayar, Acharyar and Bhagavatas. Once we complete the current birth (leave the Sthoola shareeram), we will travel through the Archaraadhi Maargam and reach SriVaikunta.

Vishnu Loga Mani Mandapa Marga Dhayee, Ramanujoh Vijayathae Yathiraja Rajahah” as in Dhaati Panchakam by Swami KoorathAzhwan.

Finally, the one and only tiny Sookshma shareeram will also get destroyed ONLY in Virajai Nadhi Snanam (holy river bath) which separates the Leela Viboothi and ParamaPadham or SriVaikuntam or Nithya Viboothi or Moksham where Bhagavan with Thayaar, Alwars, Acharyar, Nithyasooris & MukthaAthmas reside. After Viraja Nathi Snanam, we get a different body. This could be any type, but it will be “Aprakritha shareeram”, which enjoys only pleasure by Serving (Nithya Kainkaryam) to Bhagavan and ALL, because Bhagavan is Happy, so we are happy.

See, what a beautiful concept/design by SriPerumal. HE is the best Design Engineer.

Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami, adiyen’ai shamikka prathikkiraean for adiyen’s above immature and Kudhrishti behaviour. Adiyen’ai thadutthu aattkolla prathikkiraen.

Aandal says “Kurai Onrum illa Govinda, Un Thannodu Uravael Namakku Ingu ozhikka ozhiyadhu, Ariyadha Pillaikalom Anbinal, Un Thannai Siru Peru Azhaithanvum Seeri Aruladhaey, Iraivaa! Nee Thaaraai Parai Yealour Empaavaai”.

Adiyen Srinivasa Dasan,

Uyya Oraey Vazhi UdayAvar ThiruvAdi,

Sarvam SriKrisharpanam.

on October 29, 2016

ElayaAlwar Swami Thiruvadigaley Sharanam

Dhanyosmi for detailed explanation. Amazing answer. Our sath sampradhayam is so deep.

Velukkudi Krishnan Swami Thiruvadigaley Sharanam

Happy Deepavali

on October 30, 2016

Adiyen Dasanudasan

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