அவஜானந்தி மா மூடா: From vikraminside

விக்ரம் ஸ்வாமி, நமஸ்காரம்.

தாங்கள் சொல்லும் வரி பகவத் கீதையில் 9.11 ஸ்லோகத்தின் 1/4 பகுதி மட்டுமே. இந்த வரியின் பொருளை பகவத் கீதையின் முழு பொருள் அடக்கத்திற்கு ஒத்து படிக்க வேண்டும். அல்லது 9 வது அத்தியாத்தின் பொருள் அடக்கத்திற்கு ஒத்து படிக்க வேண்டும். அல்லது அந்த பகுதியில் உள்ள மற்ற ஸ்லோகங்களுக்குள் இது எப்படி பொருந்துகிறது என்று படிக்க வேண்டும். குறைந்தது அந்த முழு ஸ்லோகத்தை படிக்க வேண்டும். அப்படியல்லாமல் ஒரு வரியை மட்டும் எடுத்துக் கொண்டு அதற்கு தானே ஒரு பொருள் கற்பித்து அதன் படி கேள்வி எழுப்புவது…. “சுக்குமி ளகுதி இப்பிலி”-க்கு பொருள் காண முயல்வதற்கு சமம்.

The best way to learn properly is to first hear from an authority (like our Swamy) and based on that study systematically from an authorised book.

அடியேன் தாசன்.

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Kambandaasan Swamy ,
தேவரீர் தான் gita authority aachey , adiyen உபன்யாசம் கேட்டுட்டு தான் சொன்னேன்.

சரி அல்ல என்று சொன்னால் விளக்கத்தையும் அருளலாம் அல்லவா ?

இதில் முதலில் என்ன தவறு கண்டீர்?

அடியேன் பிரமாணம் இல்லாமல் என்ன சொன்னேன்?

கொஞ்சம் யோசிச்சா உடனே சுவகல்பிதம் என்று கூறுவது இயற்கை தான்

பராசர பாட்டர் சொன்னது தவறு என்று சொல்ல போறீரா?

இல்லை அதை அடியேன் சொன்னது என்பதனால் தவறு என்று சொல்ல போகிறீர்களா?

avajananti mam mudha
manusim tanum asritam
param bhavam ajananto
mama bhuta-mahesvaram

SYNONYMS
avajananti—deride; mam—Me; mudhah—foolish men; manusim—in a human form; tanum—body; asritam—assuming; param—transcendental; bhavam—nature; ajanantah—not knowing; mama—Mine; bhuta—everything that be; mahesvaram—supreme proprietor.
TRANSLATION
Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be.

பெருமாள் பத்தி யாரும் முழதாக தெரிந்துக் கொள்ள முடியாது என்று கூறினேன்

பெருமாளின் பரத்வம் பெருமாளுக்கே தெரியாது என்று கூறினேன்

பராசர பாட்டர் சொன்னதை சொன்னேன்

தாஸானுதாசண்

விக்ரம் ஸ்வாமி, நமஸ்காரம்.

ஒன்பதாம் அத்தியாயத்தின் இந்த பகுதியில், பகவான் தன்னுடைய ஸர்வேச்வரத் தன்மையையும் (“transcendental nature” in the translation you have provided), தன்னிடத்தில் ஸ்ரத்தையுள்ளவர் கதியும், ஸ்ரத்தை இல்லாடவர் கதியையும் விளக்குகிறார். (9.5 – 9.14).

So, in this context the word avajananthi is an adjective to those fools who do not understand the transcendental nature of perumal and consider Him as just another human being or may be a special human being with some powers. In this context ‘avajananthi’ is not refering to “those who do not understand Perumal fully”; because in the 7th chapter itself Perumal has clearly declared that no one can understand Him fully (7.3 and 7.26), and only a very very rare person understands “Vasudeva sarvam iti” – He is EVERYTHING (7.19); even this person can not understand Perumal fully. No body can.

அதனால்தான் சொன்னேன், ஒரு சொல்லின்/வரியின் பொருளைஅதன் முழு context யில் பொருத்தி பொருள் காண்பது அவசியம்.

தாங்கள் சொல்ல வந்த கருத்துக்கு பராசர பட்டர் எடுத்து காட்டிய மேற்கோலை முன்வைதிருந்தீரானால் அடியேன் ஆட்சேபனை செய்திருக்க மாட்டேன். பகவத்கீதையின் இந்த வரியை தனியே பிரித்தெடுத்து ஆதாரமாக கொள்வது சரியன்று என்பது அடியேன் கருத்து.

அபராதம் ஏதும் இருந்தால் மன்னிக்கவும். தங்களுடன் தயிர் கடைவதில் அடியேனுக்கு மிக்க மகிழ்ச்சியே.

அடியேன் தாசன். 

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha
Srimathe Sri Varaha Mahadesikaya Namaha
Sri Velukkudi Varadachariyar Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Sri Velukkudi Ranganathan Swamy Thiruvadigaley Sharanam
Sri:

Swamy excellent.

Adiyen was also typing but thought let devareer come up first

தன்னிடத்தில் ஸ்ரத்தையுள்ளவர் கதியும், ஸ்ரத்தை இல்லாடவர் கதியையும் விளக்குகிறார். (9.5 – 9.14).
=>nAstika the one Krishna was referring to
=>The bhaktha who acts like a bhakthA but keep blaming PerumaL for petty reasons

The 2nd one Krishna ruled off because he is progressive in nature so its resolvable

The former is the one who has nirgathi according to Krishna

Swamy NammAzhwar says
வைகுந்தம் புகுவது மன்னவர் விதியே

Adiyen point of view is, Krishna is MOTHER
Krishna is FATHER

He will not let anyone be non-bhakthan

So he was trying to do comedy by saying No Gathi. Every looping samsAram.

Adiyen kindal.pannala. Tried to put the facts in order.

Even foreigners are chanting Hare Krishna

So the one who hasn’t listened to the thirunAmam will.listen one day

Get Sath Sangam

And start onward journey

Coming to limits of Krishna. Krishna is Infinite.
Krishna doesn’t know his own limits.

Limits என்று இருந்தால் தானே தெரியும்

ஆம் அது தானே தெரியும்

ஸ்வத சித்தம்

Dasanudasan

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan
Just curious Vikraminside Swamy
Where and why all this anger originating from you? In most of your posts there is outrage , Is it because of ahankaram or mamakaram? Have you wondered it swamy ?

கோவமா? அப்படியா? நான் ஏதும் பாக்கலியே!! விக்ரம் ஸ்வாமி நீங்க பாத்தீங்களா?

நட்பான உரிமையோடு ஒரு உரையாடலாகதான் அடியேனுக்கு படுகிறது.

அடியேன் தாசன்.

Adiyen ramanuja dasan
Appadiya swamy? Unmai adhuvaga irundhal sandhosam swamy
Adiyen feels main purpose of sathsangam is bring each other up and adiyen welcomes hitham.
Thats why adiyen was curious.
Forgive adiyen swamy

Dear Ramanuja Dasan swamy, namaskaaram.

I don’t have the tiniest doubt in your good intentions.

I can say for sure, in this post atleast Vikram swamy is not expressing anger. We both have been interacting for quite a long time, and the seemingly challenging phrases are just in the friendly spirit of taking two sides of an arguement to bring out the best in the discussion. We call it தயிர் கடைதல் – two people pull the churning rod in opposite directions for the purpose of bringing out butter. Similarly in our discussions, we pose ourselves in an opposing spirit. 

That we don’t have any ill feelings towards each other is evidenced by the fact that once some nice point comes out of the discussion both sides are equally happy and relish the discussion. No  “I am right you are wrong” kind of discussion here.

For instance in the above post, Vikram swamy says he had already thought about the point I have expressed but he just waited for me write that. And once he saw my reply he expresses his joy and appreciation. 

I sincerely thank you for your concern and the willingness to step up and caution us not to loose ourselves to ego clashes. Kindly feel free to help me the same way whenever I may fall a victim to my ego.

adiyen dasan.

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan
Thank you for the kind response Kambandasan Swamy
Adiyen did not become curious not only by this particular topic post, adiyen has been a part of this forum for a long time and noticed that vikram swamy has played great role in keeping this forum interesting with new questions as well most of the time vikram swamy’s posts show outrage all these years , thats why if we are in sathsangam we should work on each others development , considering vikram swamy’s history in this forum all these years , Vikram swamy’s anger has stayed the same or increased thats why adiyen want to discuss about the issue with vikram swamy but most of us get more angry when hitham is being told , adiyen wants to exercise helping each other in this forum rather than priyam swamin and obviously learn good from each other.Adiyen sincerely feels we are doing disservice to each other if we ourselves ignore each others faults instead of bringing each other up.

Adiyen could not understand the purpose of the forum when someone like adiyen is part of , for years but still without improvement or being blocked to improve.

Forgive adiyen swamy

Dear Ramanuja dasan-swamy, namaskaram. Thank you for your kind response.

Once again you have expressed your good intentions and well-wishings for everyone in this forum very clearly. 

Please allow me share some of my thoughts on what you have expressed:

1. Adiyen could not understand the purpose of the forum when someone like adiyen is part of , for years but still without improvement or being blocked to improve.From Ramanuja Dasan

Oh! this satisfaction of being purified, we’ll never experience. Once we get interested in this spiritual path and sincerely apply ourselves to it, we will only see how much more dirt is present in us; we will become aware of more and more subtler and subtler dirts in our heart and constantly strive towards removing it. That you are feeling like this itself is proof that you are definitely improving. A person who is not improving will think he is perfect and no room to improve! Even Yamunacharya condemns himself with words which we can not even use! Then where are we! So, please don’t worry.

2.

adiyen wants to exercise helping each other…….. learn good from each other.Adiyen sincerely feels we are doing disservice to each other if we ourselves ignore each others faults instead of bringing each other up.From Ramanuja Dasan

Swamy, what I have learnt from the teachings of acharyas and through my own experience (learnt the hard way) is,

a) the best way to help others is be the right example.

b) help in the form of identifying another person’s fault can be done only under certain special conditions: (i) if our role is as the spiritual master or the father of that person (ii) if that person has explicitly asked us to do so (iii) if we are in a very close relationship with that person and the two have reasonably good understanding of each other (even in this case, the advise can be done only on occassions of  serious issues). If these three criteria does not apply to us, then the only way we can help others is by being a good example.

c) On more than one occassion, when someone asked our Velukkudi Swamy a question for the ‘betterment’ of another person, our Swamy mildly chastised the questioner “you ask questions pertaining to you. The other person can ask for himself / herself”. Swamy also has explained in En Pani that this process is a process of self-discipline. We have to focus on our own faults, and the merits of others. If we tend to focus on others’ faults that will lead to very dangerous situations for ourselves. (honestly, I was fast heading in that direction; I was fortunately saved by my Acharyan-swamy)

3.

From ”most

I can fully understand your feelings. If you trace back to my very first interaction with Vikram swamy, it was a serious arguement, because I felt one of his posts was not worded properly.

Fortunately, over time I have got to exchange emails with him and understand him better. Now what I realise is, his language may not appear sophisticated and may seem quite blunt. But his devotion to Perumal, his attachment to his acharyan, and his attachment to our Velukkudi Swamy is unquestionable. Some times he posts “kondaka-mandaka” questions or kutharmana questions. But his actual intention is not to challenge; but his intension is that we all must know the answers to these questions so that we will not be swayed by atheistic arguements from outsiders. For this purpose he may even assume an opposition stance to get a really satisfying answer. Some times he himself finds and answer from other sources and shares it here. So, my understanding is, his expressions of ‘anger’ are not really anger. It is just his way of communication.

Secondly, even if there is a baseline of frustration in his words, I just brush it aside after knowing what kind of challenges and difficulties he has undergone since childhood. It is amazing someone can be so devoted even after undergoing so much difficulties in life. In such a position I might have become an atheist! So, my respect for him has gone up.

The more we see the positive in a person, his positive grows; as his positive grows his negatives have to vacate the room. Until then, let us serve each other as good examples; the ‘little more’ help of identifying faults can be done if we are i)spiritual master/father, (ii) if we have been requested to do so, (iii) if that person has a very close relationship with us with good mutual understanding and the situation is quite important.

Thank you very much.

adiyen dasan.

most of the time vikram swamy’s posts show outrage all these years ,From Ramanuja Dasan

(this is the quote for #3 in the above).

Ramanujadasan swamy, let me also delve into some topic that has been in my heart for some time now.

In the youtube you may find some posts which challenge our Swamy for not questioning some apparent inappropriateness in some temple related issues. Our Swamy has clearly stated in an upanyasam “I have defined my kainkaryam as preaching and am engaging in this to as much extent I can. To identify the mistakes happening in other places and setting them right is not within my domain. So, I am not doing it. If someone else chooses to do it well and good. All I am saying it is not within my domain”.

This is such a clear explanation. But there are some who find fault even with this!

If a room is smelling bad, one may try to push out the bad air, or one may fill the room with fresh air such that the bad air automatically goes out. Likewise, instead of putting his time and energy in identifying faults and trying to set things right (which is a formidable task) he is doing the positive – filling up the society with people who are interested in devotion and purity of service. Just see how many people across the world are taking interest in our sampradaya because of him. When this number increases more and more and we all start to manifest the qualities pleasing to Perumal, automatically all temples etc etc will get set right. Otherwise, if one simply engages one’s time and energy on removing some “wrongs” then “new wrongs” will fill up the place; this will be endless cycle… because the society will not have any “right” to fill up. But when one focuses on filling up the society with people who are on the ‘right’ then automatically in course of time the ‘wrongs’ will be flushed out.

Even at the individual level, our focus must be to live by the good qualities and set the right example, and encourage the right qualities in others, intead of focusing on identifying the faults in others and help them see that. The fault finding process is endless because all of us are filled with faults. No one in this yuga is free from faults. So, if we start on that direction our whole life will be burnt away simply in finding faults and we will loose our own good qualities!

Kindly bear with me if I have spoken beyond what I should.

adiyen dasan.

Srimathe Rangaramanuja Mahadesikaya Namaha

Swamy dhanyosmi Kambandasan Swamy
Dhanyosmi Ramanuja Dasan Swamy

Devareer said truth only . Yes that is my swabhAvam.

“Dasan” ngra ennam eppo kuraiyardho appo kovam varardhu. So ahambhavam dhan, mama kAram dhAn.

Prakruthuthe SwabhAvAth

Adiyen usually get involved.

Chumma Upanyasam Kaetutu apply pannama ponA no payan.

AhA romba nanna sonnAr swamy, vAngo namba velaya pAkka povom endru sonnAl mudinju pochu

Ava avlo varinju varinju soldrAley. 3 hrs 4 hrs yaru nanmaikkAga? Namba Athma kshemathukkAga dhAney

For Example: Krishna Premi anna told Veda muraiyA kathukanum. AvAlukku sAppadu podanum.

💯 hundred Peru America poi
10 veda kuzhandhaigala
KApAthinA kuda paravAilla

So adiyen understood which category adiyen belonged the “Pant-Shirt category”

Veda category is “Pure” category

That’s why adiyen thought its not advisable to contaminate it.

Ippa nA “Pant – Shirt” potukravan
Vetti kattindu online la veda soldren nu vechuppom
“Arai kuraiyA”

UnmaiyAna Veda pAtaShAlA kuzhandhaigalukku DONATE Pandra ennam poidum

Naanum kathunden, neeyum kathunda
Unakum enakkum enna difference?

In fact nA lowkika kalvi adhigamA kathundrukken nu ayidum

This was my main concern. Shraddhai etc is secondary matter adhu Guru pAthuppAr

So idha point out panninen, contaminate ayida poradhey nutu

Crop thala vechundu soldra

Sathiyama sollungo
“Tasya ShikAyA madhye paramAthmA vyavasthitha:” nu varudhA illaiyA?

Shikai illAma soldrathu vedam anumathikkumA?

Rule is a Rule

Guruvin manasa kashta paduthiten adhu thani

Adhukkaga adiyen sonnadhu thappu nu ayiduma?

Na kaettadhu venumna thappa irukkalAm

“Pant-Shirt” podra nAn yeppadi kekka pochu?
Correct i don’t have rights

But it doesn’t make a wrong right

Reason adiyenukkum puriyardhu our brahmin community not all are rich

Like old days kings are not donating

In fact we have have to restore at any cost

Ippa kooda soldren “Adiyen kutham soldrathukkAga kekkala nalla yennathula dhAn kaeten yosichu pArungo”

Core Veda valandhA thAn sampradhAyam valarum

Idhu yen kopamA veli patrukalAm ,
Illai ahambhvam nu thonalam

Adhu enaku theriyadhu

Sarvam Sri KrishnArpanam Asthu
Dasanudasan

Adiyen yen vedam kathukkala?
Kathukkala. Vaaipu illai. English padippum seriya varalai. Vedamum kathukalai. Rendum kettan.

En kuzhanthaita patashAlaikku anuppa ready.

Avanukku Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Mudinja manthiram solli seri panni kathu kudungo.

Ippo sandhyavandhanam ozhunga pannindu irukken.

Avlo dhAn ennala mudiyum.

Vedam arumai ippa dhAn puriyaradhu